Baines, Gary – History of Clive

[Audience noise]

Michael Fowler: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks very much for attending tonight. It’s good to see so many new faces, and I would hazard a guess that you’re probably from Clive.  I’d also like to welcome Gary Baines. Gary’s been collecting information on Clive as some of you may know, for about thirty years, so … photographs and all sorts of information … and just spent the last year or so just compiling it into a book. So I know I’ve been looking forward to this for quite a while now as many of you have as well. So welcome, Gary, tonight to Landmarks.

Gary Baines: Thank you, Michael. [Applause]

Okay, I’ll start off – I shifted to Clive about thirty years ago, and being the person that I am … sort of probably like everybody in the room tonight … wanted to find something about Clive’s history. So … and I found that [a] hundred and seventy years of European history, let alone Maori history – nobody had been game to have a crack at writing it down. So what do you do? Normally you’d go to your normal places which are the museums, the libraries – nothing, or a few little bits and pieces. Mind you, Madelon and Moana weren’t here then, thirty years ago – probably not even born, but [laughter] … but I boxed on with it, and I put together I hope, a fix to that situation. And thanks to a lot of people in this room tonight, who’ve been of great assistance to me, so I thank you for that lot.

What I will try and tempt you with tonight is an overview of some of the subjects that I have covered in the book which is going to be published, that I put together on Clive. I’m going to leave aside the local chiefs; I’m going to leave aside the local Pa, or single … plural, Pa/Pas; the missionaries; the rivers; the bridges; the battles … the big battles that pakiaka – is that all right Moana? Pakiaka … and start with Barney Rhodes.

[Shows slide] Barney Rhodes was the eldest of four brothers from Yorkshire in England. He was born in 1807, and in October 1839, he set out from Sydney, on board his barque, the ‘Eleanor’, to buy land in New Zealand for himself and his partners in Australia, Cooper and Holt. So he was operating out of Australia. Barney seemed to … he knew what he was looking for. There was some sort of action in the offing, and he was almost certainly hoping to cash in on needs of the New Zealand Company, who were just about ready to purchase with the land and [?], the ships and that sort of stuff in Wellington and places like that. So over the next few months, he allegedly “purchased” (with exclamation [quotation] marks) – if that is the word – several very large tracts of land … both Islands, including a thirty mile deep tract of land from Mahia Peninsula to Castlepoint … thirty mile deep – 1.4 million acres. That’s his estimate, because the land hadn’t been surveyed, so he said it was 1.4 million acres. The purchase price for that: cash and merchandise to the amount of £158 sterling. [Chuckles] This was a nominal purchase. It was disallowed after vigorous protest from the CMS which is [was] the Church Missionary Society; William Williams – he was the … I would say he would’ve been the … I’m not sure whether he was the only representative of the church in this area. But anyway, he kicked up about it, and obviously the majority of the Maori in the area also kicked up about it. They knew nothing about such a transaction. So the government proposed however, that in satisfaction of his disallowed claim, Barney was granted with a hundred thousand acres at Rissington; four and a half thousand on the south side of the Tukituki River, which is Haumoana-Te Awanga area; plus the trading post which he’d already set up at Waipureku, which is East Clive. Barney had seen the advantages of the Waipureku site, which was the common mouth on [at] that stage of the Tukituki and the Ngaruroro [Rivers]. That gave access to inland central Hawke’s Bay, and it also, by canoe, to the Tutaekuri [River], and from Tutaekuri right through to the … where the Iron Pot is now … right through to the … to Petane, which is now Bay View, and over and above that what was already a large Maori trading centre. So he knew what he was doing by going to Waipureku, which is East Clive, so Clive. Waipureku would not have been of any real significance to him during those early years – no more and no less than the many similar trading depots he set up all around New Zealand – 1839 to 1840, he did those depots.

Barney finally settled in Wellington and died in 1878. Although twice married, he had only one child, a daughter, Maryann, by an unnamed Maori woman … which is shades of William Colenso. Maryann married a William Moorhouse in England, and their eldest son was the first airman to receive the Victoria Cross in the First World War. So that goes back to Barney Rhodes, to the first airman in the first war to get the VC.

[Next slide] All right – Robert Clive. You’re probably all aware that the township of Clive is named after Lord Robert Clive. He was the Baron of Plassey, Clive of India – he was the principal founder of the British Empire in India. At that stage Hastings was not even thought of. Napier was considered a hopeless spot for a town – there was no fresh water; it was just a rock in the middle of a swamp, and bits and pieces like that. There was no fresh water, no wood, and it was surrounded by sea and swamp. So the principal town for the area should be called Clive, but a subordinate town to be named after Sir Charles Napier. And that was what Alfred Domett, who was Commissioner of Crown Lands for the Ahuriri district – did in 1855. Napier was Napier, and Clive was going to be the place, so it is amazing what history hides when it wants to.

Robert Clive ended up fighting corruption charges; he was an opium addict; he suffered from fits of depression and melancholy, and finally committed suicide in 1774 by stabbing himself with a pen-knife. So that’s Robert – our Clive’s named after that gentleman, so … [chuckles] for better or worse. Yeah. So who lives in Clive? There’s a fair few … a few of you out there, so [chuckles] … including me.

[Next slide] Joseph Rhodes, you could call the founding father of Clive. Joseph was a younger brother of Barney. He took up his purchases in 1853. Barney was still all over New Zealand … bits and pieces, buying this … and he had huge land in – or the Rhodes brothers did actually, in – all over New Zealand, big tracts of land in Christchurch, Wellington. But Joseph took up Barney’s area round here – he took up the small holding at Waipureku; the four and a half thousand acres across the Tukituki, which is the Clive Grange Estate … called the Clive Grange Estate; plus his hundred thousand acres at Rissington. Joseph may have lived … not quite sure of this one, I can’t quite track it down … in a temporary home at the northern end of Grange Road in Haumoana. Anybody aware where that is? You go right into Haumoana with the little store on the right hand side of Grange Road, across there – before he built a grand home on what is now number 9 Haumoana Road. There’s a large … people call it an ombu tree … o-m-b-u … this huge big tree at number 9 Haumoana Road. That was believed to have been planted by Joseph in 1853. So … do you know where it is? I think John Scott, the architect – he was in there. Yeah. But the big tree is supposed to be an ombu tree, and that’s … whether that’s the name of a tree or not I don’t know, but that’s what they call it, an ombu tree … and that’s still there, and it’s supposed to’ve been planted in 1853 by that gentleman there. [Refers to slide]

Rhodes sold his home, Clive Grange, in 1872 and moved to Milton Grange in Milton Road. One of the later owners of Clive Grange was a James McFarlane. He built an even grander home in Raymond Road, Haumoana. Raymond Road is up by the Haumoana School – it goes across the back there. And he registered the Clive Grange name, so the Haumoana Road was known simply as ‘The Grange’, while the place in Raymond Road was ‘Clive Grange’. At the same time another house was built with same bricks kilned by McFarlane, in Tukituki Road. This was called Grange Farm. It is now owned by Hugh Baker … Hugh Baker’s still on that Grange Farm.

[Next slide] That’s an early photo, 1860s, of the Clive Grange Homestead, number 9 Haumoana Road. I can’t see any big ombu tree there but … that was built by Joseph Rhodes – number 9 Haumoana Road – photo 1860s. Joseph farmed the four thousand five hundred acres estate, plus the area across the trading depot at Waipureku. That home was pulled down in 1914. Waipureku, which you are probably all aware means the meeting of the water … meeting of waters, which is the Tuki Tuki and the Ngaruroro coming together, so Waipureku is the meeting of the waters … common mouth.

[Next slide] That’s Clive Grange, Raymond Road. That was built by McFarlane. A very impressive building. That’s Raymond Road, along from Haumoana School. This impressive homestead was built by James McFarlane in 1903. He’d shifted from a sixty-thousand acre run at Tolaga Bay which he sold, and bought Clive Grange from Walter Shrimpton. All the bricks on the bottom storey were kilned on the property. The building is obviously no longer there, but the Clive Grange plaque, which is a big brass plaque with an ombu tree on it, is still on the gate to the current home. And I think Craig Hickson owns that. I’m not a hundred percent sure on that, but I’m pretty sure he owns that current home. It’s not that one, [referring to slide] but that was … I’m pretty sure somebody to do with Paxies had that for a while too. It was burnt down … I’m not … is that right?

[Next slide] Hikutoto Block. [Refers to land plan] That’s the Clive Block, it was called the Hikutoto Block. North Block – down this way was another church on South Block. That’s the town of Clive, which is now East Clive. That’s the Ngaruroro. That’s the Ngaruroro, it comes round here – there’s a common mouth. There’s no mouth there. And that road there is now Lawn Road, and this one here – you can see the track skirting round there – that road there leads to the ferry. So Ferry Road … Clive’s about here now, and Ferry Road comes through Clive … the ferry was right at the very end of the river … the Clive River, as such now. That site there was a key point in the settlement of Hawke’s Bay. As early as 1855 the early settlers in the area formed a company to establish a punt through to Clive – that was in 1855. It was a flat-bottomed platform with hand rails on the sides. Drays could be driven on to it. Horses led, and the punt then poled, and drawn across with ropes both sides of the punt, so it could be steadied by the current etcetera, by ropes across to the other side which is the Waitangi area, and from there to Napier. So that point there is a very focal point in the early settlement of Hawke’s Bay.

John McKinnon was … I thought the first but, Ian, as a McKinnon, has just pointed something out – that his … could it be great-grandfather, Ian? Or what would it be? Your great-grandfather was there in 1859, but John McKinnon is the first recorded ferryman for that Clive Ferry. There’s a ferry building on this side of the river. There’s a little building just there and he operated out of that one there. Whether or not he lived there, I don’t know. But he charged sixpence for foot passengers and horses; a shilling for horse carts, and two shillings for bullock drays. The ferry landings both sides … that side and that side … were leased from Karaitiana Takamoana from Te Awapuni Pa at Waitangi, so he was across here – he had the Pa across the river there, where Colenso was. And he leased the ferry site – grazing site he called it – to the Clive settlers for the ferry.

[Next slide] Can we work this one out or not? A bit too far away for our eyes, are we? That was called Clive Road – that is now School Road. This plan was drawn by Henry Tiffen – it was drawn up in 1857 for Joseph Rhodes. He drew it up in, as I say, in 1857 – three hundred and seventy three quarter acre sections, and with many reserves. All these little bits with the writing on are educational reserves – there’s educational reserves everywhere, but there’s only one school reserve, and I don’t know why they called it a school reserve and educational reserve. Has anybody got any clues? ‘Cause there’s about ten educational reserves, and there’s only one school reserve, which is this one here. But as I say, there’s School Road; that’s Richmond Road here. That goes straight to the sewage treatment plant – that road through there. And these – a lot of them are papa roads, but they’re still actually there – you can see the …

Question: Papa Roads?

Gary: Some of them are, yeah. Well, some of them’ve got a little bit of dirt on them, but … [Chuckles]

Comment: Should still think that they’re real roads.

Gary: Were they? Yeah. [Chuckles] But if there’s anybody here from East Clive they’ll know all the … the Pit Street and the Fox Street and the Grey and all that sort of stuff. But right in this area just here [pointing out locations on map] – okay, there’s the school reserve there, that was the first school in the area. It was built in 1859 on the school reserve just there. [Next slides] There was two hotels – there was Dyett’s Hotel and there was Fougere’s in Grey Street. So there was two hotels in 1850s-60s in East Clive. The blacksmith, Dolbel, was there, opposite the school reserve. There was obviously a hardware shop … general store. All these triangle reserves on the corners here – all those reserves here were reserved for … any clues? Cab stands. That’s what was written on the thing as Cab Stands, so – yeah, amazing.

[Next slide] Across here was the lock-up reserve. There was a lock-up jail in East Clive – or Clive, I should say. It’s funny, with the lock-up there was a Constable Harrington in attendance, and in 1862 a certain [?Meta?] was apprehended for a misdemeanour and put in the lock-up. That little spot there – you can imagine, 1860s sort of stuff. He was put in there; locked up, and that night fourteen to fifteen hefty warriors came and demanded that he be released. And Mr Harrington said “No way”, you know “He’s a prisoner, and he’s not going to be released.” So the warriors, being fifteen hefty warriors, grabbed Mr Policeman and put him aside, and broke the door down and took Mr Meta out, so … he was a brave man, was Constable Harrington. I think there’s further repercussions about it, but that actually did happen … through newspaper reports. So they just broke the door down and said “We want him out”, and they took him out, so …

[Next slide] This is the Swampy Creek – that’s actually Muddy Creek, and it was called Swampy Creek, but they called it Swampy Creek then. And that was the Clive Crescent. It was going to run around the creek, and the Ngaruroro [pointing out on map] you can see came right round to the mouth of [the] Tuki[tuki], right down the end – the school’s over here, and you go on down, [and] right at the end of Waipureku is Clive Road here. So the river went right round there and joined up with the Tukituki.

But all these were paper roads, but some of the roads are still there, obviously. Bridge Street was going to cross Muddy Creek to the ferry, and there was a bridge there for a little while, but Bridge Street is no longer – it’s just this little area round here.

[Next slide] Cemetery Reserve in Clive … corner of Richmond Road and School Road. [Indicates on map] That’s School Road there, or Clive Road it was called, and that’s Richmond Road here, going up towards the treatment plant. Was anybody ever buried there? Probably not. How do I know? Because, number one – my sister and brother-in-law built on those two sections there in 1960 I suppose it was. And we’re a pretty superstitious family and we double-checked and double-checked and double-checked – they did – and we’re pretty sure there was nobody buried there. And secondly, the Hawke’s Bay Land Board in 1905, recommended that the sections across the road here [indicates] – that’s Richmond Road – across the road there be reserved as a cemetery site. And my great grandfather was on that Land Board, so he’s saying in our records that there’s nobody buried in that one there, and nobody buried in that one either. But people have said there is [are] people buried at Clive, but I can’t find anything at all.

But those two sections are still empty. There’s new houses all round here – some very nice, impressive houses, but those two sections are still empty. And maybe there is some lonely sailor or settler’s ghost wandering round looking for his headstone … I don’t know.

[Next slide] Yes, there was a racecourse in Clive. It was first set up by Thomas Tanner in 1855, and a newspaper report from the 1870s states that a Charles Stewart, had erected a grandstand at the Clive Racecourse, capable of accommodating two hundred and fifty people, with a commodious bar and spacious luncheon room underneath the grandstand. They were both well partitioned. A Mr Allanach was a baker from Clive – he was the Racecourse caterer. Actually the building was pulled down in 1881.

Question: Whereabouts was it, Gary?

Gary: The records say it was … with stopbanks and bits and pieces like that … with the earlier photos where the hotels and that were, across the road going down to Lawn Road. On the corner of Lawn Road and Waipureku – in that area there as far as we can gather. There’s no stopbanks, there’s no … you know, and it was different completely, then, but it certainly wasn’t in the township, and the back of that was all river. And it wasn’t this side of the Lawn Road, so the only place it could be, close to those, was in that area there. [Indicates]

At an 1857 race meeting, Te Hapuku and his followers came fully armed. This led to his opponents – at that time [it] was Te Moananui Tareha and Karaitiana Takamoana and their followers – to do the same. So there was two lots of rival opponents at that time arrived at the racecourse with … they say the guns weren’t loaded but … so it was incredible. And just imagine the scene in the early days – there would’ve been waka pulled up at the river … at the Tukituki River … and there would’ve been the ladies – the European ladies in all their finery and bits and pieces like that, and all the … I don’t know about top hats that men wore at [the] races … I don’t know, but there would’ve been horses, hotels, guns, and spears, so [chuckles] it was a really wild west, and that’s in Clive. [Chuckles]

The two people … like, Moananui and Te Hapuku came to further blows at the Te pakiaka battles in 1857, 1858, and there was probably twenty, twenty-eight people killed in those ones there. They were fighting amongst themselves while the European settlers were doing their business, ploughing and stuff, and they were shooting across fences at each other and stuff like that. But that’s all part of the book, which I’ve done.

[Next slide] Farndon Park. This is quite an interesting one that … where did the name ‘Farndon’ come from? The first reference I can find to it is they called the Clive Railway Station Farndon Railway Station, 1874. This is one I just can’t quite pin down, and there’s a lot of people have come up with good suggestions, but … anything out there, well, we’ll grab it. There were some suggestions that there were certain people overseas that speculated – they bought land round Farndon, and they might’ve been from England – bits and pieces like that. And they loaned it, speculated on it and then sold it off. There was in early English dialect, Farndon is Fern Hill … means Fern Hill … but there’s no hills in Farndon. The village of Farndon in in Cheshire, in England and it’s right on the border with Wales. Being on the border there’s a Welsh name for it too, and I think they pronounce it ‘Rhedynfre’, so luckily they opted for Farndon. Also, somebody must’ve done a pretty good sales pitch for selling the Farndon Park Reserve. If you can think back to the purchase in 1870 for £210; a twenty-acre block to be set up in the middle of nowhere as a botanical reserve … a botanical, so … think about it – in the middle of nowhere somebody sold it as … you can buy that land and turn it into a botanical reserve … botanical gardens. Luckily they did, you know, that somebody did a good sales pitch. But I’m still really searching for the name Farndon – where it came from.

[Next slide] Okay – the 1897 flood. In 1897 the three major rivers, the Tutaekuri, the Tukituki and the Ngaruroro, after heavy rain flooded all of Hawke’s Bay, not just Clive, but we were probably the hardest hit, in Clive. And a special train was sent from Napier along the railway line which was there then, and it got to within one and a half miles of Farndon Railway Station. They lowered boats to try and rescue people – they were stranded on the Clive bridge – not all of Clive, there was Mr Tucker’s relatives were in the houses standing on tables and stuff like that. Any rate, the first boat that got away carrying ten men – they’d just got started and the force of the water burst a shingle bank where the railway line had been constructed. It was constructed on the bank, so it didn’t burst the riverbank as such – burst the railway bank and took the boat with all hands out to sea. And they lost ten people in that one there – they only found four bodies. So it burst through the railway track, and they were just getting the boat ready and [it] just sucked them out to sea and they were gone. So they found four bodies – that’s all they found.

[Next slide] That one there’s Farndon Road – we assume it’s Farndon Road. And this here is the start of the Farndon Reserve with all the trees … the botanical reserve. There’s heaps and heaps of trees in that reserve. So that’s Farndon Road, recovering sheep.

[Next slide] That one there’s the main street of Clive. That’s Weathered’s store on the corner of School Road – this is the main road here. That’s where the Clive Hotel is now, and that’s Weathered’s store there. That’s going out towards Hastings, that way there. So that’s the 1897 flood – that’s Weathered’s store. That was there ‘til … in a different form … ‘til 1973, and that’s obviously where the Clive Hotel is now.

[Next slide] That one there’s McGlashan’s Brewery during the flood. There was supposed to’ve been somebody inside the house, and there was a cow in the house at the same time – it was dead. [Chuckles] It was floating around – they were standing on tables, and this cow was floating around in the room with them. They couldn’t do much about it – they couldn’t drag the cow out. [Chuckle]

[Next slide] And that one there’s on the corner of Hellyers Lane and Quinn’s Garage … know where Quinn’s ..? Right opposite that on that corner there – that was McGlashan’s Brewery there, right opposite that, right on that corner.

[Next slide] That’s the Waitangi rail bridge – you can see, obviously there’s no way of getting through to Napier, and there’s … stores and provisions had to be done, so they boated them across the river. And that’s the road going past Hohepa, this side … going out towards Clive that way.

Question: Gary, the initial settlement was obviously in East Clive, and we’re now seeing buildings that are actually in the Clive [??] … [cough] was there any reason ..?

Gary: Yeah, the basic reason really was in 1867 they built the first bridge in the area. The ferry was there, and that little road I showed you, they built a bridge there in 1867. So that brought a few closer to the access to Napier, and then in 1874 they built the railway station there, and that further brought goods and supplies and bits and pieces like that … was the basic reason – not floods or anything like that – it was just closer to the bridge and the railway station.

[Next slide] That’s nine of the ten people that drowned in the tragedy in 1897 – only four of the bodies were found. That Mr Cassin – he’s up in there somewhere. That’s only nine of the ten – I don’t know where the other one went. But they only found the four bodies from that one, so they [were] pushed way out to sea.

[Next slide] That one there as Michael’s already mentioned in one of his articles – it’s opposite the Te Pania Hotel. And so many people don’t know what it means – there’s a big cenotaph there, but what’s it for? I assume you all know what it’s for – that was dedicated to the ten people that lost their lives in the 1897 flood. And the big Te Pania Hotel – that one there’s right outside it, and inside that cenotaph in the foundation, is a specially prepared glass bottle containing a parch[ment] document describing the 1897 flood and the disaster; a balance sheet of the flood fund and other articles. A hundred and ten years later, hopefully the history … and no water’s got into that bottle, ‘cause it’s still in there. And there were drinking fountains on four sides of it – they’re obviously turned off now. So I hope they turned the water off around those bottles in there. But Michael, you’ve mentioned that haven’t you, Michael? With one of your articles.

[Next slide] That was built in 1874 – that photo’s taken around about 1900. The name – was called Farndon – the name was changed to Clive in 1915, and was pulled down after fire damage in the seventies and it was replaced by a smaller building. And for a long time there there was three rail carriages. They were behind that … the building there, but they were there for years and years and years, and they’ve gone now. D’you remember those? Anybody remember them? Well they were there for years, yeah. That is right opposite Quinn’s Garage site – the railway station in Clive. But that was quite a busy little site, ‘cause we had the freezing works … bits and pieces like that. All the schoolkids used to come from Tomoana, Whakatu, to the railway station, across the bridge to school and stuff like that, so it was a busy little station.

[Next slide] ‘The Lawn’, Lawn Road. That was named after – William Nelson who was a … obviously a very famous pioneer in Hawke’s Bay – it was named after his parents, and it was first built in the Mangateretere block in 1869. The first site was flooded within a year, so he shifted it further down Lawn Road – we didn’t find out where, Rose, did we? Somewhere down Lawn Road … cut up in pieces and moved by bullock dray. And in 1900 the house was cut up again and moved across … about seven miles … across [the] Tukituki River to Tukituki Station, which was burnt down in 1994. Lawn Road was named after William Nelson’s original home in England.

[Next slide] Mill Road. This is a real – that’s Muddy Creek going through to Haumoana, down Mill Road going towards Haumoana – Muddy Creek. Before you get to Muddy Creek, left hand side – that’s where it was in there. A John Brown ran that mill. The other side of the road, utilising Muddy Creek, was the West Clive Brewery, which is a two-storey building right opposite, utilising that Muddy Creek again. That was built in 1873, and was changed to the Edinburgh Brewery in 1876. So right opposite the flour mill, the other side of the road – the right hand side going towards Haumoana by Muddy Creek, was a two-storey brewery in there. Thanks to Madelon for this one – we hunted high and low to try and get something about the flour mill – I knew there was something there [refers to photo] and it was a real gem getting that one, Madelon, made my day that day.

[Next slide] The first school. The first school was built in Bell Street in East Clive in 1859, and was shifted to School Road – that same building – 1879, because 1879 they had the new school further down, closer to Clive itself. And that building was empty, but it was on an educational reserve, and the Church couldn’t use the school reserve – they had to shift it to their own site, and they shifted it to School Road, [coughing] and that was right down the end of School Road, just towards Waipureku, and that was there for many years. There was [were] actually two big public schools in Clive in the 1870s … early 1870s – one at East Clive, and there was a new one at School Road, And the one in Bell Street was still there, and the new one was still operating in School Road, so for a long time there was [were] two schools within – what? Miles of each other – big schools.

[Next slide] There’s an early photo of East Clive – 1939, it was quite an early one – pretty hard to see, but I really put it in there to say, with research I thought ‘Oh, I’ll get some photos from Aerial Mapping – this’ll be good.’ And they were very, very good – they’ve got very comprehensive records there. You can go in there and said “Right – we’ll have that, that and that”, and it was brilliant. And they said “Well, they’re about $20 [bucks] each”. I said “Oh – I don’t want them, thank you very much!” [Chuckles] But that’s a very early photo of East Clive, and that’s [indicating] about where the school is there – that’s going towards Waipureku, round here. And that is Lawn Road. There’s a little house right over the stopbank there – it was there for a long, long time. But that’s where the sewer is [indicating] – that was built in 1938, the old concrete pier, which is still out there. It’s a long way out to sea now actually, it’s about fifty metres out. You used to be able to walk out on that.

[Next slide] That the 1974 flood – a lot of you’ll remember that one. I really put it in there just to show the two churches. [Indicates] That one’s still there; that is owned by the Warren family. They were going to turn it into a … how would you say … a gallery cum photo studio, and bits and pieces like that. But they had a bit of ill health in the family. They still own it, but it’s a ‘who knows?’ with that one. And this one here’s obviously on the corner of Willowpark Road and Heretaunga Street. That’s the church there, yeah, and that’s still there. And that’s the one … it’s actually in the ground of Sacred Heart, right on the corner of Willowpark … on the corner, yeah. So it’s really in that block, so they’ve got Catholic and Anglican, and they’re still tied up together in Willowpark Road.

That there’s the old Gregory homestead, and that’s still there and that was a huge big property. Mr Gregory, the old Richard … Richard Gregory’s dead, but his wife is still there, and she comes out every Friday afternoon and sits on the footpath and feeds chooks and dogs and cats, and still does it every Friday afternoon. She was a Swiss lady that he brought back from Switzerland. [Indicates] You can see that’s School Road there, and those are the two churches. There’s the hotel on the corner there, and that’s the public hall there.

[Next slide] Hohepa. That’s quite a good one. Mainly the Hohepa people are very, very helpful with what I’ve been doing – they just fall over themselves to be of assistance. That’s probably taken about 1970 we think – that was in their Boardroom, and they just said “Here – take it, go photocopy it, do what you want with it”. I took the original back obviously, but that’s all their property. And now there’s an orchard here [indicates]; that’s Hellyers Lane about here, and [when] you go past you can still see a little milking shed sort of thing, and the concrete foundation’s still there actually. But that’s quite an early photo – a nice photo of Hohepa.

With the Hohepa, I always thought that Mr Lew Harris was the man that started it, but he was really the chief benefactor. He was the man that put a lot of the money up, and also donated property, but the real push behind it was a Marjorie Allen. She was the lady that really kept going, and then a lot of people had helped and donated land etcetera – ‘specially Lew Harris. But Marjorie Allen – she was the lady that was really the push behind the whole … she was looking after a Downs boy herself, not her own, but she was the lady.

[Next slide] That one there as I said before – that one was McGlashan’s Brewery – that was built in 1877. The house itself was built out of pumice, so there must’ve been a lot of pumice floating round in those days … pumice and mud and brick, and the brewery was added on later on. McGlashan was very famous for his horehound beer, and he used to sell it to hospitals as a teetotallers’ beer, so I don’t know how they worked [chuckles] that one out. It was a teetotallers’ beer, horehound beer, and he sold heaps of it – couldn’t keep up with production. [Chuckles]

I initially thought that the two hotels in Waipureku would’ve been the first in the area, but a Robert Hollis – he’s sort of taken the limelight, that one. He seems to’ve had an accommodation house at Waitangi, where Colenso’s plaque, or plinth is. You know, forget about it now – it’s different now than it was then because of the stopbanks and rivers etcetera, etcetera. There was an accommodation house run there by a Robert Hollis in 1853, ‘54, and he sold more than cups of tea out of that building. [Chuckles] And Colenso wasn’t there – don’t forget he’d been defrocked and he was gone, but there must’ve been quite a little settlement there and there was an accommodation house there, and Robert Hollis. So you can say there was a little hotel somewhere in that area there. When I say hotel … it’s not like a hotel now, probably just a little whare.

[Next slide] The Shamrock Hotel. It’s a little bit out of my … thing, in Awatoto, but with the Tutaekuri running along that way, and access to Petane, Bay View etcetera went all round that area there, that hotel was right opposite Tareha’s Crossing in Awatoto … the nine-hole golf course. It was called Bridge Street, and is now – they’ve changed it to Phillips Street. That’s in the 1897 flood, so that’s another large hotel which not many people … didn’t even know it was there. It was actually called ‘The Blood House’. In those days there must’ve been a lot of Irish settlers in the area, and being an Irishman – I hope there’s not many belligerent Irishmen out here – but they got a bit … there was [were] parties etcetera, etcetera. So they got a special room in this hotel; the combatants would be given a hunk of manuka each; locked in the room; [chuckles] and rap three times and the winner’d come out. And it was called ‘The Blood House’. So that’s obviously Bridge Street … Phillips Street in Awatoto, which is opposite where the Vintage Car Club is, or where – I think they still own the building – just across towards the nine-hole golf course.

[Next slide] Clive Hotel. That was in Farndon, opposite the Farndon Park gates – built in 1882. You can see it was quite an impressive structure, but they cut that one up too, and shifted that across the river to the … The West Clive Hotel, it was called. The restaurant there where the Clive Hotel is now – there’s a restaurant across the other side that’s empty. That’s sort of – I don’t know what, it changes its name all the time, that one, but that’s about where that hotel was. That’s about the 1920s, that one there, so that’s the same one that was across the road at Farndon.

[Next slide] That’s the same hotel again – that happened in [the] 1931 earthquake. The insurance report says the foundations are wrecked; the whole building badly twisted and out of plumb; and cheaper to rebuild than repair. So they pulled it down, and shifted across the road. [Laughter] So that’s School Road here – oh, you know where the hotel is in Clive – everybody knows … I assume they do … and there’s still the old Gregory homestead in the background. I think a doctor’s surgery was here, [indicates] and obviously that’s all buildings around here now. There’s just all paddocks in the background. That would’ve been in the 1960s. That Gregory homestead was built by Lascelles – Gregorys didn’t arrive ‘til early twentieth century, probably 1911, ‘12, ‘13, ‘14 sort of stuff. Right next door there now is what they’ve done at Gregory Park. There’s a little park reserve there now – they’ve donated that. That was from Richard and Ann Gregory.

But that’s the old Clive Hotel, which could tell a few tales.

[Next slide] That’s about 1900 approximately – the main street of Clive. There’s Weathered’s store, it’s still there. That’s coming round … Clive Hotel over there. And those two buildings [indicates] are still there, those little … as you come across the bridge you can still see them, still sitting there and they’ve been there a long time. That was the old bridge – the new bridge is up … comes in about here [indicates] sort of stuff. Around about 1900, and that’s Weathered’s store there. There was no Saint Aidan’s Church then. And that’s School Road in through the back there, and that’s the hotel site there.

[Next slide] That’s looking towards the bridge. There’s the West Clive Hotel, and there’s your main shopping centre down there. The butcher’s shop hopefully, that we’ve tracked down, [indicates locations] and those little buildings around about here, and there’s a blacksmith across here. And I’ve got the names of those shops along there. But there’s the West Clive pub – that’s the side it was on.

[Next slide] That’s another one of there. There was the blacksmith’s shop here; the West Clive Hotel there; George Thornton – he was a draper; Cushings – Cushing Brothers, they were a general store, they called it; and P G Thornton – he was another general store. And that was basically the hub of Clive’s main shopping area. But there’s that big hotel still sittin’ there.

[Next slide] That’s the Weathered’s store, which is where the motel site is now … where the motels are. School Road runs across here, [indicates] the main road there, and that store was there for a long, long time. Right on the back here there’s a large bakery. A Mr Allanach was there for a long time – he was a baker out of there, and there was four bakers actually lived on site, so there must’ve been quite a big bakery shop there. That was Weathered’s; then it was a Jimmy Girvan; then it changed to Bevan’s. And just in the background here you can see St Aidan’s, the old church that was shifted to Tukituki where the cheese factory is in Tukituki Road … that road that runs towards the river, it’s down there somewhere. There’s the church there. That was pulled down in 1973 for the motels, which are still on the same site.

[Next slide] That’s The Town Emporium [laughter] – that’s where the BP carwash site is. And that was there for … probably about 1900 right through to 1931, the 1931 earthquake.

Comment: That previous one, as kids at Clive School we used to [go to] Girvan’s store – we used to get weighed for the rugby team.

Gary: Did you really? Okay, yeah. And Miles Girvan is still the Secretary of the Clive Rugby Club.

That’s the baker’s shop on the side here … the bakery at the back there, and St Aidan’s on the side here. But it was an impressive general store.

[Next slide] The O’Connell blacksmith’s shop. That was where Clive Glass is – as you come off the bridge you see the big shop there. The O’Connells – obviously there was a lot of other blacksmith’s in the area too, but the O’Connells were a large Irish family. They actually established a blacksmith’s shop in Waitangi in 1869, so they had a blacksmith’s shop in Waitangi in 1869, and they shifted to where Clive Glass are, and that was pulled down in 1916. A friend of mine, Eric McDougall, he’s ex-Remac Alarms, and he said “Oh, Gary, I’ve got some relatives – good upstanding family, blacksmiths, and the height of the community,” etcetera, etcetera. “And I’ll bring you some photos.” So he brought these photos in, and I said “Thanks, Eric.” And I delved some more into it, and they were a large family that he’d been involved with with rugby and stuff like that, but there also was a few sort of hellraisers in the … The more you look into the old newspapers, there was a Mr O’Connell was in the racecourse, and he’d got drunk and fell off the horse and had to be carried back. [Chuckles] These are convictions, and one was for racing over the Clive bridge – the O’Connells were lined up on the bridge with their horses [chuckles] – ready, set go! And any pedestrian – just knock them out of the road. O’Connells again – and they refused to pay the toll at Tareha’s Crossing, which was the only way they could get to – by keeping their feet dry – was to use the Crossing, but they wouldn’t pay the … Tareha, or whoever it was, probably the publican at the Awatoto, or the Shamrock – he’d collect the money. So the O’Connells were a bit of a hell-raising family, and there’s more which I’ve kept out of the book, because some of them were worse than that. [Chuckles] But Eric’s taken a good … “Oh,” he said “I didn’t know that”. He said “Oh, yeah – my family.” [Chuckles] Just shows you when you delve into it there’s a lot of skeletons out there.

[Next slide] That’s the public hall – that’s on the site where the current public hall is. That land was donated by local families, and was burned down one week before the 1931 earthquake. And as you probably all know the current one was almost burnt down by fire in a … you know. But that’s in the process of being repaired now, thanks to a lot of the community all getting together and doing it.

The butcher’s shop – that was right at the end, just as you went onto the bridge. I knew there was a butcher’s shop in the area – approximate site on the main road, but I couldn’t pin down a name for that butcher. There was a lot of newer butchers – I know the names of them, but thanks to Judy and Ray Blair, is it?

Judy: It’s the McHardy family.

Gary: McHardy family, yes. I’ve got a copy of a bank account in the name of John McHardy, who was a butcher in Clive in 1896. So that sort of ties into the butcher’s shop, that site, and that period. So hopefully, he’s the mystery owner, McHardys, thanks to that lot of accounts there. And some of those names are still Clive people. That’s 1896, so that’s an early one, yeah.

[Next slide] That was originally built as the Clive Dairy Factory in 1900. There was a lot of dairying around the area. It went broke, but it’s right next door to the Clive Hall. The Clive Hall, it’s the new one, it’s just here, [indicates] and the current Clive Hall’s just over there. And there’s a little building in there – Brent Patterson owns the building now. [It] was a dairy factory, and then it was converted to a cheese factory; then it was a plasterer; and they finally turned it into a jukebox museum. It was a jukebox museum, same site. And it’s now a private residence. That was the Clive Cider Mill – obviously retail sales from there.

I could probably carry on all night, I’ve got so many photos but I had to just give you a selection of what I’ve got there, and it probably gives you an idea of how history can be … even local history … can be almost lost. A lot of that stuff is just about lost. And even a lot of people in the room obviously know Clive, and they say “Wow – I didn’t know that!” And there’s so much that I’ve got out there that I couldn’t put in tonight’s presentation – there’s just an incredible lot of history there that nobody’s got. And I’ve written down here actually – it says: “To me it has been like Hiram Bingham, and rediscovering Machu Pichu.” Well, not quite, but I’m sure you understand how it feels. So thank you.


Michael: Thank you, Gary. Just seen an example here tonight of someone who’s extremely passionate about a subject. And some of the best histories are those written by people who are absolutely passionate about their subject, and we’ve absolutely seen that tonight. I guess like – many of us will have a new impression of Clive. I don’t know a lot about Clive and I know a lot more tonight, and also with your upcoming book. So thank you very much, Gary.


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Landmarks Talk 10 May 2011

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