Colwill, Valda Marie Interview

Well today’s the 4^th of March 2016. My name’s Frank Cooper and today I’m interviewing Valda Marie Colwill of Hastings. Valda, would you like to tell us something about the life and times of your family in Hastings and where they came, and how it all started.

Well, perhaps I should start with my grandfather. He was very fond of his children, and his birthday was the children’s birthday … it wasn’t his, it was the children … and I think at one stage there were 21 of us, and there would be a party for the children and he would be enjoying himself. And this went on for quite some years, in fact almost until he died – every year he had a party for the children. And of course he lived over in Willowpark Rd and owned from Lyndon Rd through to Southampton St – he had quite a few acres there. So we had plenty of room to play.

And his family name was ..?

Samuel Thomas Tong.

Right. So as your grandfather,  had he come to New Zealand or was he born in New Zealand?

No, he came to New Zealand. I think he came down from Auckland, because part of his family were up in Auckland. No, he came down here and settled over there. ‘Course first of all before he was over here in Willowpark Rd, they had the undertaking business …

Yes.

… in Karamu Rd – well of course they lived above the shop, and they lived up there for quite some years, and then he bought this property over here in Willowpark Rd. Well the family shifted over there then.

What did they do on the land, did he have a few cows – couple of cows or a sheep or ..?

No – usually a horse there … there’d be a horse and that’s about all – he didn’t go in for much stock on the property. But there were sheds, plenty of sheds and of course that was storage. The property did go from Lyndon through to Southampton St originally.

Mmm – big piece of land …

It was. And it wasn’t built on – it was all empty.

So you were born there?

No. I was born in Outram Rd. And my father – he was in Willowpark Rd. My mother – her maiden name was Warren and they were more Havelock people. But however, when they were married they bought a section and built on the corner of Outram and Park Rd. We had quite a big section over there and that’s where my youth was.

Sure.

I had one brother, Mervyn, he was seven years older than I was so he was at boarding school. I wasn’t brought up with him at a great time because with a seven year break between us he was at school and I was only just starting.

That’s right,  and when you started school he was off to boarding school.

That’s right. And likewise, I finished up at boarding school too. In the meantime we shifted from Outram Rd.

But just before you shift from Outram Rd – what was Outram Rd like those days?

Well, there was a great big sump in the middle of the road. That was there for years. [Speaking together]

We could see that for …

And that sump was a landmark for where we lived. Next door … like, we were on the corner, and next door to us were the Lamberts who worked for my father – or my grandfather I should say. And then came Morrisons, Jim Morrison – well he worked for Samuel Tong. And this was undertaking. And … ‘course in those days coffins were made to measure. Anybody dying – they had to be measured and a coffin was all hands in. And time and again, especially on a Sunday – people chose to die on a Sunday. We’d be packed up all ready to go down to the beach – we had a cottage at the beach – Te Awanga. And we’d be all packed up ready to go and then the message would come through that so and so and so was dead. So … undo the car, and Dad had to go back to work. That went on for quite some years.

Yes I know the feeling because we were dairy farmers, and of course …

Oh yes.

… seven days a week – pack the family up to go somewhere and …

Something’d happen.

Something has happened, we can’t go and – you know … but it was part of the life wasn’t it?

Yeah. Oh, it was just automatic, you just downed tools and go back to where you began.

So then – you started school at Central School from Outram Rd.

Central School – I did my primary here, yes. And … ‘course all the Tongs were educated at Central School. In fact I think grandfather Tong – Pop Tong – he built the Infants’ portion – think it’s still over there now. However, that was history, that part. After that – I did my primary over here and then of course I had to go further afield – I went into Napier Girls’ High School and boarded there. And then of course the ‘quake came, and I hadn’t gone back to school because we’d overstayed our time down at the beach. ‘Course Mum hadn’t got my clothes all ready. So we were a day late at least, and off we went to do our final shopping and we got over the railway line and it was a hot, muggy day. Mum said “Oh, it’s too hot.” We were going down to Roach’s – “too hot, we’ll go back to Westerman’s”. So we went back to Westerman’s. And then the shake came.

Lucky you did.

Yes. Although we were in being served by one of the girls that had been at primary school with me, and when the shake came she ran, and of course I did too. I remember Mum saying “Stop”, and I didn’t stop – I kept going.

But in those days all the bolts of material was packed up in the doorway. Unfortunately I went head over turkey and finished up among all the material. And Mum was behind me. But this other girl that was serving us – she got just a little bit ahead, and she lost a leg. We heard her moaning … didn’t know where she was ’cause see, the material was all over us. We lay there, and we saw the Grand Hotel come down, and it came right over. One of the boys that I was at school … primary school – he was out on the footpath, but he was killed of course. Anybody out there caught the verandahs coming down.

Yes, sure. [Speaking together]

But anyway – we got out of Westerman’s, got out the back way – we couldn’t get out the front way – we got out and we headed home. And I had my best hat on – it was cut to pieces all on the top, and there wasn’t a hair of my head touched. But the hat was sliced to pieces.

Anyway, we went home. Merv (my brother) was in the fire service then. We didn’t see him – he was working at Williams & Kettle at the time. He had – the wall came in on him – he was injured but not enough to stop him because he was in the fire brigade – he couldn’t stop. So he went off – Mum and Dad went off – they were busy making coffins using what they had and they piled up … they finished up having to use blankets ’cause they couldn’t keep up the making of them. [Speaking together]

Making of them.

But however, those were the times of the shake, and Merv came within a day or two of the shake and took me down to Wellington where I stayed there and went to school there. I had a couple of years down there.

So what school was that?

Wellington Girls’ College.

Oh yes, yes.

There were other Napier girls there too.

Did you come back to Napier after you were in Wellington?

Yes. [Speaking together] Oh no – I didn’t come back to Napier because I finished up down there.

You came back – no, no, you never went back to – no, no – yes certainly.

After the twelve months was up I came home here. And next door to us was the Clifton Commercial College, so I had a couple of years there as a pupil. Then they got me a job at the Public Trust it was.

Right.

From there I went to Wilsons’ Nursery I think, after that, and then I came into town to the Farmers.

That was Hawke’s Bay Farmers?

Yes. And from Hawke’s Bay Farmers I went to Murray Roberts, and I was there for fifteen years. And that was the end of my working life actually, there.

And you met your husband at … some stage. [Speaking together]

Yes. Oh, well … met him when I was this high …

Oh, chicken stealing! [Speaking together]

Oh, well I was only five – he was a fireman too. See I married into the firemen … [laughter]

Oh, goodness, you couldn’t get away from it.

No, ha ha. So anyway, that was my life up to when I got married. Then when we were married I bought the … Reg was – he was still in the fire service and I think he was in – out of Levin or somewhere down the line – or Palmerston was it – anyway he was transferred down there. And I was left here. I realised we’d have to have a house – I was with my parents at that time. So this property here became vacant – it was up for sale. Mum and I had a natter, so we went and found out, had a talk, and … first thing my father said “oh, I used to catch tadpoles there”.

Anyway, I went ahead, I thought well – I was on my own, I only … like, I had my parents to guide me, so I bought the section. And this was empty – this was all our vegetable garden, and there was a big 30 foot glasshouse on it.

So anyway, life went on … he was in the brigade. He didn’t go away because he had pneumonia. He didn’t get away. So they turfed him out of the fire service down in Palmerston, and he came home. He was at Ohakea then in the fire service. And so he came home and settled down, and in the meantime I’d bought this property, and we had the house up there so we shifted in up there. We’ve been here ever since.

So coming back to your husband – so his whole life was in the brigade?

Yes – fire.

Yes. And apart from going away early on, he was in Hawke’s Bay for most of that time.

Yes. He was born in Taradale actually and I think his parents had a store over there. ‘Course they retired, and they lived in Railway Rd. But when Reg was in the fire service, they lived on the station – just went home for meals. And Merv was the same.

‘Cause when you think back to the fire service those days – they didn’t get into those big flash red trucks …

Oh, no.

It was more hands on wasn’t it? [Speaking together]

That’s right.

Very much so. And a fireman those days – it was very hard work.

It was – well Merv lived round the corner here, in Hastings St, about three houses round – and of course we were here, and there was a wire connected to the fire service down there, and of course when the bell went it rang in our house. So of course it was all hands in. His pants were there – he’d step out of the bed and into his pants. I’d have his bike ready, ’cause cars were useless. And he’d go off on his bike, as did Merv, round the corner. And time and again if they were short on the engine of a crew, they’d wait for these two. ‘|Cause they both would arrive, the same time, slam the bikes down and hop on the first engine. If they didn’t catch that first engine they were disappointed. It was their problem – or their duty – to catch that first engine. And that made up a crew.

Yes, it’s hard for those of us who weren’t born in that time to even imagine what it was like. Water supply wasn’t as good …

No.

… nothing was as good. And some of the buildings were as high as they are today.

That’s right.

And of course there was no smoke alarms, there were no protected …

Nothing.

And quite often there was no water where the fire was, so they had to run a lot of hoses …

Yes. The well … in the town where S T Tong and Sons were – the funeral … undertakers … at the back they had a well, an artesian well, and it was – oh, a very wide bore and it was running all the time. And that actually saved the east end on the day of the shake.

Did it really?

Otherwise the east end would have gone the same as Roach’s. It stopped, see, they had the water …

Yes, to contain the fire.

… from S T to – it didn’t go past Nutter’s corner … but now is.

Yes, because for those of us that were born – see I was born in 1936. When I was growing up there was no sign of the earthquake anywhere – it had all been fixed.

No.

It was as if it had never happened.

That’s right.

And you know, my father was farming at that time and he was out in the paddock and he said he was thrown off his feet. And we couldn’t imagine what it was like. But, you know – sometimes you’ve just gotta take what people say … that’s what it was like.

Yes. It was, too.

But I guess we were very lucky in some ways that it wasn’t worse than it was.

Oh, this is right, it could have been ten times worse.

So did you play any sport at all when you were growing up?

No not really.

You never became a great hurdler, or a netball player?

No. I wasn’t interested in sport.

And so even later in life – you haven’t played bowls, or golf – or any of – chess?

No, no. I didn’t play any sport at all – I was commercial, and I had to push those keys. My father was determined I was going to have a commercial course. It was our one argument between us – that he could add up quicker than I could on the adding machine – and he did. He was quicker than I was, and I was pretty good at it.

Well you think of some of those grocers and butchers, and they’d write everything down on the brown paper, and then they’d just go like this … and like that … and you’d never challenge them on whether it was … ’cause it was always right.

Well – that was my father. I wouldn’t argue with him – if he said he could add that quicker than I could on the machine – he’d be right.

Well if you talk to some of these younger people today – they can’t operate without an adding machine.

No. They’ve gotta have it in their hand. And even then they can’t – they’re not accurate.

Because those of us that learned the old way – maths …

Yes.

… we have – these numbers are there … things can happen, you know – they’re always locked in aren’t they?

Yes.

So – gardening? You obviously were a keen gardener for those first few years that you had this big rear site. So …

Yeah. I don’t mind gardening, but it’s gotta be done. And if I’ve gotta – it’s gotta be kept tidy. But my father … he was a crank with his lawn. I’m sure he measured every blade of grass when he cut the lawn. [Laughter]

Is that right? Ha ha. It probably looked pretty good though.

And actually I feel like him, when – I enjoy mowing lawns. But I don’t do them here now, but I did. I’ve always mowed the lawns because I enjoyed doing it. But I didn’t get down to Dad’s level – of measuring. [Laughter]

No. And so – the fire brigade, and you were working … children?

Working children?

No, no, did you have children?

Oh, only one – I had a daughter.

Yes, is she still ..?

She’s down in Christchurch.

And – grandchildren?

No, no grandchildren. Plenty of dogs.

And do you get to see her?

No …

Or the distance is …

I see very little of her.

Yes – well it’s a long way away for – and of course she won’t be young now either, will she?

No, she’s done very well in the dog line. She’s an international judge.

Is she?

Yes.

What breeds?

Any breed, all breeds. And she spends most of her time travelling the world.

Being a judge, or?

Yes.

Going to Crufts or … whatever big dog shows. [Speaking together]

Yeah, well she took one of her dogs over to Crufts …

Did she?

… but of course she wasn’t in the running, but she has had some lovely dogs. She knows how to breed them.

And so at some stage your husband obviously departed?

Yes, he died at 83. Well of course he was 15 years older than I was. And I’ve been on my own ever since.

Right. Do you read, or ..?

Not very much, ’cause I have a busy day, and once I’m finished here and cleaned up here, I’ll go to bed. I might read in bed, take the paper and read it, but – half the time I’ll fall asleep.

And television, do you watch television?

Yep. Oh yes, but I don’t [speaking together] follow much of the serials – I don’t get involved. I can turn it off comfortably and go to bed.

Yes it’s just fascinating you know – a hundred years plus – you’ve seen so many changes …

This is right.

… in your life. A lot of them when you look back, you probably took notice at the time, but they just sort of … blend into life, don’t they, because you came through the era when cars were just starting, and …

Things happen, and you just cope. And time goes on.

So, a pioneering family in the fire brigade in Hastings, I guess you would say, very much.

Very much.

You never got involved in the brigade?

No, no, well of course there wasn’t the desire on their part. Women weren’t accepted.

‘Cause for those of us that were around, the brigade – none of us knew much about the brigade.

No.

We knew Len Harlan, we knew a few people like that because they were front people, their photo was in the paper, but all the people that did the work – they were … sleeping and they were on call, on roster.

Yeah.

And they were sort of a force there that was … quiet, and heard but not seen.

[Laughter] Yes, well Reg served under Harlan, and so did Merv. Merv was the engine driver – ‘course being a motor mechanic, that was just …

Perfect for him, yes.

… natural. Reg was Deputy Super …

Yes, yes.

… to Harlan.

Life has been reasonably smooth, and things have come out as you …

Yes.

… would have liked them to.

Yes, there’s not very many disappointments. I’ve had a good life … in fact I think myself, I’ve had a good even running life. Everything’s turned out as I want it to – haven’t had many disappointments at all.

Well that’s wonderful, because, you know it’s not always … doesn’t always happen that way does it?

No.

But you know, just listening to you – you were reasonably self-disciplined, and had some goals that you – did …

Yes.

And you know, those are things that helped you … make that ride smooth, didn’t they?

Yes. But no, everything went really good. When we were in Outram Rd we had – our neighbours next door were … was Bill and Ann Lambert – well of course, she was a second mother to me. We stayed there until I was about 10, and that’s when we shifted to Hastings, Southampton St corner there, and it was a beautiful home, a lovely home. Not now. No, we shifted in – I’d be about 10 then. We still kept in touch with the Lamberts – they were very close.

You mentioned that you’re still driving at 100 years old. How long have you been driving?

I got my licence at 18. We had a traffic inspector living over the road from us – nice person he was. ‘Course Dad had been tutoring me, and Merv. And Dad wouldn’t let me have the car – oh no – but I could learn to drive. So anyway, I learnt to drive, and Merv taught me mainly. This traffic inspector living opposite – ‘course the time came when I wanted a licence, I was 18, and time I got a licence. And he didn’t even take me for a test.

Didn’t he really?

No. He said “I’ve been watching you.” [Laughter]

Can you remember his name?

No, I haven’t a clue. Haven’t a clue what his name was.

Because it’s interesting … when you said they lived across the road – Hastings had lots of gaps between the houses those days.

Yes.

Big paddocks – I know there was a sawmill just around the corner from …

Over Dufferin St way …

That’s right – Wares was it? The Wares.

That’s right.

I can think of other big paddocks around … as a small boy I always remember seeing them but it didn’t register – the same as when I think about it now.

Yeah, those were the good old days.

Yes. So that’s a – no wonder you don’t want to give it away, your licence. It’s become a habit. [Laughter]

Do you know it’s hard to believe you’re 100 you know – ’cause you just don’t seem to be 100.

Well I don’t feel it. It’s only this last fortnight when I’ve got arthritis. I’ve got it in the shoulder … down one side – it’s hampering me, that’s all.

A lot of the people I’ve interviewed – I’ve interviewed about seventy now, in the last year and most of them are in their mid 80s – mid 90s – late 90s – and most of them have one thing in common … not one of them think “old”.

No.

They just treat each day as another life’s bonus.

That’s right.

And there’s a lesson to be learned from that because we see a lot of people who think “old” before they are old.

Yes.

The biggest thrill I had – it wasn’t really a thrill but it brought me back to a lady I was interviewing in Havelock – she was 99, and she said “how old are you?” and I said “I’m 79”. “Oh”, she said “you’re climbing up in life sonny, aren’t you?” [Laughter] So – yes. Well that’s – see the interesting thing … you’ve told me about the linkage with the Warrens of Havelock North who had the bakeries in Havelock North …

Yes.

… very much part of Hawke’s Bay history.

Well grandfather – he wasn’t the baker. It was his brother that had the bakery. Grandfather Warren – I don’t remember him being anything but retired. ‘Cause he had his shops in the east end – he had four or five shops in the east end here. Well the rents of those …

Would have … yes.

… kept him going. And he lived down in … down where Paddy Donovan is, in …

Oh, yes, I know.

What’s that street?

King Street? Nelson … [speaking together]

King.

No King Street, yes, King Street.

Yes, it’s the other … the extension of King Street.

That’s right – yes it is, that’s right, yes.

Well Grandfather Warren lived down there.

The other interesting thing is that – at that time – and we’re talking about when you were born – there wasn’t so many people in Hastings or Havelock …

No.

… and of course everyone knew everybody.

This is right.

And that’s something … after a while I thought well – that’s interesting, how do these people ..? Then it occurred to me – there were probably only fifty people living at Haumoana, there were 1000 or 1200 living in Havelock – ‘course they knew everybody. Oh, socialising … did you dance, or go ..?

Oh yes, we always went to the dances.

So where did you go to the dances in Hawke’s Bay then ..?

Oh, they used to have them weekly in the Assembly Hall.

‘Cause later on they had the Premier – Premier Hall, the Catholic place?

Oh yeah.

I think that’s given us a pretty good picture of the path of your life, and your parents and … to today, and thank you very much Valda, for that input … that’s really great. [Speaking together]

You’re quite welcome.