de Lautour, Maurice Bayly (Bay) Interview

4th February [2019]; I’m interviewing Maurice Bayly de Lautour of Waipukurau, and Bay’s a very successful businessman and farmer. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Jim.

And I’ll leave this for you to tell us your story on your family. It’s all yours.

Thank you. All my family, and grandparents and great-grandparents came to New Zealand fairly early on. The de Lautour family – great-grandfather de Lautour, C A [Cecil Albert] – settled in Otago in 1863 and farmed there for a while before he got injured in a horse accident. He then went into Parliament; was there for a couple of terms; put himself through law, and eventually moved to Gisborne and practised there for a number of years. He was the … I think the first Chairman of Gisborne Sheepfarmers Co-op, [Co-operative] and after he retired from law he actually managed the Kaiti Freezing Works there for a few years, ‘til his early eighties, I think. He had seventeen children, one of which was my grandfather, Harry de Lautour; [he] initially farmed near East Cape, and then later nearer to Gisborne – [?] and Waimata. And he married the daughter of Humphrey Bayly. She died when the children were young, and my grandfather married Jocelyn Lusk.

On my mother’s side, [my] grandfather was J R Murphy, and his father settled at Tolaga Bay back in 1860s I guess. And my mother was Miriam; she married my father who was Humphrey Maurice Bayly de Lautour, who farmed in Wairoa; served overseas in the 20th Army Regiment and fought through Italy, and later helped start the Territorial Armoured Regiment in Waiouru. And eventually he was Commander of the Queen Elizabeth Tank Squadron, Hawke’s Bay.

I went to Christ’s College and didn’t go on to university; I bought a farm in Southern Hawke’s Bay, Te Whangai. It was basically scrub; I think about four hundred acres clear out of the two thousand two hundred acres. So we had a long period of development – there were only five paddocks, so we had a hundred miles of fencing. We didn’t have a woolshed; we had to build a woolshed and shearers’ quarters.

In 1958 I married Shona Hobson from the Manawatu, and then continued to break in the land, and had five children; we lost one aged five. We built quite a substantial homestead in the mid-sixties, and eventually I retired from there. And we built the farm from approximately two thousand eight hundred stock units to about … bit over twenty thousand. In the meantime we bought another small farm down at Takapau, and I farmed there for another thirty years; largely farmed deer and a bit of cropping, and fat lambs. At one stage we had thirteen hundred deer.

In my time there I got pretty involved with a number of organisations; as a director … from earlier on … Hawke’s Bay Farmers; and helped start the East Coast Wool Co-op and East Coast Venison, and the Wool Co-op is still going today. We actually formed a joint venture with Elder’s in 2005, and that’s now been taken over – Elder’s was bought out by [the] Carr family in the South Island, and I’m still a director of Carrfield’s Primary Wool.

So that’s where we are today; I’ve virtually retired from farming, and planning to retire from the directorships later in the year.

Bay, just going back to 1952 – the intake for compulsory military training – what service did you ..?

We only had one choice I think, in Wairoa, and that was Infantry, so I was a foot soldier for three years of CMT.

Stationed where?

Well we used to do our annual camp up in Waiouru, out in the wop-wops. That was quite an interesting experience I guess, because I didn’t do weekend camps because I was shifted down from Gisborne. And so I used to have to go up in the advance party, which meant driving a three ton truck from Waiouru, and then we camped in the tussocks, with no latrines or tents or anything – we had to put them all up; bathe in the creek in mid-winter. Quite an experience.

How was the venison trade? Was that worthwhile when you look back?

Yep, very successful. Earlier on we actually employed Craig Hickson to manage a little plant and the co-op. So basically we didn’t have any other infrastructure; we paid him a fee, and we were actually the first farmer-owned … in fact pretty well the first venison company other than Mears, I think. Initially we halved the venison slaughter price and made a profit every year, until we later joined up with the Deer Industry Association to buy out Wrightson, and form Venison New Zealand, which I chaired for a while. And we had a plant in Southland as well as the original East Coast Venison plants in Feilding and Hastings; but we had a change of chairman and very soon we ran out of money, and I guess things weren’t managed very well. So that unfortunately went down the drain.

I see here you were runner-up for the Farmer of the Year … who won that?

Doug Kittow was the winner I guess … David Kittow … and Sam Robinson was another runner-up.

1980?

That was in 1980, yeah.

Then you get on to Carrafield’s? [Carrfield’s] Now they’re the people [who] have taken over Farmers Transport – is that correct?

Carrfield’s? Yes, well Carrfield’s took over from … bought out Elder’s, and we’ve got … think we’ve got twelve depots, or collection points I guess, and we were operating in Napier and we’ve actually moved. Carrfield’s bought the Hawke’s Bay Farmers’ Transport area; that’s subleased to Hawke’s Bay Farmers Transport which is now Richardson’s in the South Island. Yes, so that’s the main store. We also have stores in Timaru and Mosgiel, Gore, Invercargill, Masterton, Wanganui, Dannevirke and Te Kuiti. So yes, quite a big business.

One sees their trucks all over Hawke’s Bay.

The Farmers Transport? No, well – we don’t own that.

Oh, you don’t own that?

The Primary Wool Co-op did own a transport business which is A W E McNicol, which we sold later on. Still operates in quite a big way.

So you were President of Christ’s College Old Boys’ Association back in ‘85 … that would’ve been interesting?

Yeah – interesting time, I guess. One of the things I think that I haven’t mentioned before is that [I] couldn’t have done most of these things if I hadn’t learned to fly, and bought an aeroplane. So I actually did four thousand hours of flying up ‘til three years ago when I had to give it up; I got leptospirosis. So, one period I was actually managing the primary wool business which had originally been East Coast Wool Co-op, and [I] used to fly down and meet the bank manager in Christchurch once a month, and get round the branches; I could get round all the North Island branches in a morning by plane, which would have taken two days of driving.

And what sort of plane was it?

A Cessna … four-seater Cessna. [Mike interference] But during that period as President of Christ’s College I was … yeah, Vice-President for one year and then President the second. But I didn’t miss a meeting. It wasn’t normal for a North Island president to actually attend any, I don’t think, but I attended every meeting and flew down there. And then obviously I used the plane – I had a period doing quality assurance; I was part of a team that developed the first meat quality assurance system. And I was later on auditor, and audited from Dannevirke right up to East Cape, and once again I went from farm to farm in the aeroplane which meant I could do twice as many farms in a day as anybody else could.

And they had their own landing strips, most of them?

Yeah – I think I’ve probably landed on just about every airstrip between here and East Cape. One airstrip out towards East Cape – I only found out while I was doing the job that there was an airstrip out there. It had been put in about fifteen years before and never been used, so … [chuckles] no one knew it was there. Anyway that turned out okay.

Tell me a little bit about the wool business – you’ve really taken that on in later life as well, haven’t you?

Well yeah. Yeah.

You’re a guiding light in that …

Well, I’ve been very interested in it. The wool is a very important part of sheep farming. At the moment it’s going through some doldrums – hopefully when people wake up to the benefits of wool it will revive and quickly get rid of the plastic, for better. But yes, I’ve been interested in wool for a long time. I think probably as far as the farming side of it’s concerned I’ve been more interested in the genetic side and the ram breeding, which has developed on; my son, Hamish, now is selling nearly seven hundred rams in a big lot down in the South Island, and that’s turned into a very successful business.

Yes. some of my friends, they say, “Bay de Lautour is the king of the wool business” … [mike interference]

[Chuckle] Yeah. Farming’s been my real life, and the other things have just been add-ons. I got dragged into the political scene at one stage but that wasn’t very successful because having to take over the chairmanship of Tukituki electorate

From ..?

Well, there wasn’t a Tukituki electorate …

You were the first one?

Yeah, yeah. So Cynthia Bowers – actually she was in charge and she pulled out. And I’d come from Pahiatua where I’d been on that committee for about ten or fifteen years with a very big involvement with National Party policy.

So you would have learned through Keith Holyoake – he was the Pahiatua …

John Falloon had taken over by the time I got there. I mean, certainly Keith Holyoake – we used to see quite a lot of him at our local branch meetings and so on. But yes, John rang me up and asked if I’d be the policy chairman, so … In those days the members I guess, at the grass roots actually ran the National Party; now we’ve gone away from that and it’s virtually a board of directors I think, unfortunately. The branch structures have disappeared, and membership must have declined hugely.

Yes, and the Waiapu Diocesan Synod?

I guess I’m involved in that as well.

There’s a lot of old boys from Christ’s College that have been involved in the church – from leaving …

Yes, I guess …

It was rammed down our throat[s] at school … [chuckle] [mike interference] I guess most of this was rammed down our throats. I often wonder why I do all these things for nothing when other people do it for themselves and become millionaires or billionaires. But I guess at Hereworth it was rammed down our neck that you virtually looked after other people, not yourself. [Chuckle]

That’s right. Yes.

Yes, not for yourselves alone.

School committee at Flemington – that’d be interesting. My word, you’ve moved around … and then founder of the East Coast Support Trust.

That was probably … yeah, in a way my biggest achievement I think. The Rural Support was originally started by [David] Lange and Peter Elworthy.

Right.

And then they folded that, and there was nothing following it so I got involved and started a Rural Support on the East Coast. We already had the existing co-ordinators from the original trust that was Peter … Bayley was it? Rick Usher in Dannevirke helped me put it together and we then added Gisborne to it and the Wairarapa. But now I think it’s more of a national organisation rather than East Coast, and the government mainly support it.

And congratulations; I didn’t realise that you got a gong from the government – what year was that?

2000.

Congratulations.

Yes, well I don’t know just … I think probably the Rural Support Trust was possibly one of the reasons for that I think; I don’t know just where it started or who put it forward.

Shona and I [are] extremely proud of our children: eldest, Hamish, took over farming from me in 1984-85 and has carried on with the stud breeding; and has also come with me as a director of Primary Wool and Carrfield’s Primary Wool; and has become a director of New Zealand Yarns, which Hamish and I actually purchased for Elder’s Primary Wool about four years ago. He’s been a director ever since, and I pulled out early in the piece as chairman for a wee while. So yes, Hamish I guess … in his earlier years his sport was polo; and William, our second son, also played a lot of polo, and played up to senior level I guess.

Yeah – second son, William – he was head pre [prefect] at Hereworth, and then head pre at Christ’s College, and was very involved in sport at Christ’s – he actually had more colours than … the most of any of the prefects or whatever; First XI, First XV for a couple of years.

And then our eldest [girl] was Jane, and she married Larry White at Barnsdale. She’s been very involved in the family farming business there, which has grown now, with quite a big dairy farm and a big lot of cropping. Her son, Edward, is now living in the house that we built on Highway 50, and I think he’s probably growing much the same amount of grain as Hugh Ritchie. I know the other day when I was talking to him, that ‘bout halfway through harvesting they’d done two thousand tons of grain. So yes, Jane’s been involved – helped to start Women in Farming, an organisation that was based in the Wairarapa for a start, but it’s now New Zealand wide.

Farmstyle, now where’s that?

Yes, at Ashley Clinton, just off Highway 50. The White family’ve been there for … it’s the fourth generation, I think, now.

And then our youngest daughter, Kate, after doing a degree she went overseas and worked in broadcasting for a while over there, and then came back and managed a radio station in Auckland; and then was producer for Radio New Zealand Sport for a number of years; got married, went back to the BBC and was news reader for BBC World Service Sport before coming home, and then starting a family – married an English boy, Roland Norman. His claim to fame I guess was, his father was Desmond Norman, who developed and built the aeroplanes … Anyway, they grew a few grapes, actually on our Highway 50 farm; but now she’s actually working for the Icehouse in Napier so she works out of the Business Hub in Napier. They have three children; two boys are at Hereworth.

We did have another son who died of brain tumour when he was five, so that was a bit sad.

And it’s nice to have all the family around, isn’t it?

Yeah, most of our grandchildren are around. Actually, we’ve got fifteen grandchildren, and we’ve got twelve great-grandchildren; and we’re expecting some twins very soon, so hopefully that’s all successful and we’ll be up to fourteen.

Haven’t you done well?

So we’ve … yeah. So they’re handy, except one grandson’s over in England, and he has two daughters over there. He went to England ‘cause he was a professional polo player originally; married a person who runs the polo ground’s daughter. [Daughter of the person who runs the polo ground]

And you’re keeping good health?

Reasonable health, but … like to be a bit younger, [chuckle] I guess.

Yeah, we all would.

The legs get a bit tired after a few hours of work.

Punching thistles out …

[Chuckle] Mostly punching and bulldozing and what-have-you, but anyway …

In my earlier farming years I was supported by the Hawke’s Bay Farmers’ Co-op and actually banked through them originally; but in 1974 I was approached to become a director which I accepted, just the time that Athol Hutton started. And I think … from talk you hear, I think he was rather maligned. He had a lot of ideas, and I guess he had no part in the failure of the company; I guess we were growing. But from the time I joined we used to have the share register on the table, and Brierley started buying shares from the time we listed. And when we got to twenty percent – at this point Jim Scotland was the CEO; Athol Hutton had gone to manage Waitaki Freezing Company – and then the Brierley shareholding grew to twenty percent and they demanded a seat on the board. Trevor Barr, who was their deputy chairman, became a director, and I think he probably took one look at the books and realised that everything was very under-valued basically, you know, in the books at historic values; and he then made a take-over offer. This was not long after we’d actually joined up with Dalgety’s … the North Island part of Dalgety’s, to become Hawke’s Bay Farmers’ Dalgety. And he offered a Brierley share for a Hawke’s Bay Farmers’ share, which the shareholders, especially one or two bigger ones around Hastings, couldn’t turn down. I think at that time it was about $3.50 a share, and later they got to $7 before they actually canned, basically, in the 1987 slump.

But it was surprising that Williams & Kettle did exactly the same thing … listed, and I think Mr Cushing probably pushed them over to Wrightson, or encouraged Wrightson to take them over. But it’s interesting now.

And you mentioned that you had worked when you were young for Levin & Co; I think there’s about seventeen companies that are now part of Wrightson, which is struggling; and I think in present dollars the Hawke’s Bay Farmers’ turnover would’ve been pretty similar to Wrightson now. And it was because we had department stores, wine & spirits, finance, travel … you name it, pretty well everything that moved. And we’d taken over Common Shelton’s in Gisborne, so it was quite a big company at the time it [was] taken over and broken up, sold in bits.

I see in here, you’ve got … alternate Cook’s Wines?

Yes, it was just Kelvin Kirkpatrick’s alternate. We had quite a big share in Cooks Wines in Auckland. We had Forestry Group wine, Wine Group horticulture – yeah, very diversified.

I remember when they first started actually …

Cooks?

Yeah. And I went to Hughes & Cossar – they were big shareholders, too.

Right. I’m not sure – we might’ve been twenty percent or something like that.

Who was the winemaker then … CEO?

I can’t remember. I went to a couple of meetings in Auckland when Callum was overseas, and I actually flew Jim Scotland; we flew up – I flew – both times. Yeah, ‘cause I bought the plane in 1974.

And did you land at Ardmore?

We landed – no, Auckland Airport in those days. It was no problem; we used to park on a bit of grass just alongside the terminal and just walk over. About ten years ago I went in there and we had to park away to hell round the back somewhere. And then when I wanted to go back to the plane, the guards marched me down there and they wanted to see my licence – which I didn’t have in the aeroplane. [Chuckle] So yeah, that was it – I never went back again. Yeah – later on I used to land at Ardmore.

Bay, anything else you want to tell me?

No, that’s about it.

They all say that, and then later on they talk on … Well, thank you, Bay, for that talk on behalf of the Hawke’s Bay Knowledge Bank.