Gordon, Robert Maurice Interview

Today is 28th March 2017. I’m Frank Cooper. I’m interviewing Bob Gordon of Havelock North, on his family. Bob, would you like to tell me something about the Gordon family?

Right. I suppose if I start off with my grandfather; he was born in Dannevirke. His father is of French descent; came from one of the Channel Islands. I think he may’ve been escaping from some sort of … not sure what he did, but he changed his name from a similar … I can’t remember the name, but it was a similar name to Gordon … but the French version. He obviously got married and my grandfather was born in Dannevirke. Now, apparently he was a pretty violent man; he used to knock the kids around, he used to knock his wife around, which is [my] grandfather’s mother. And then he did a runner – disappeared; hence my grandfather as a young teen or young lad, taking up boxing. And in his words he was going to ‘knock the bloke’s head off if he ever saw him again’. But they never saw him again – he disappeared, which was by the sound of it no great loss.

So he finished up living in Napier; had … how many children? Four girls, two boys. And he was a butcher at that stage in Napier. And then in … I’m pretty sure it was 1939 … he started up the bee keeping business in Riverslea Road South. My father was about thirteen at the time so back in those days he’d just left school and worked with my grandfather. And basically they were there until … I think Dad eventually went into partnership and then eventually bought my grandfather out. And my grandfather passed away in 1977 … died in his sleep, had a heart attack. And Dad was … they lived down the back from us and then Dad sold up the business in 1984.

What was the name of the apiary?

It was just called Rob Gordon Apiaries, but they never … the honey back in those days they sold … I can remember as a kid, the honey got sold to the Honey Marketing Board and then eventually they just sold it directly to Arataki [Honey] and Arataki marketed it commercially. But they always had sales at the gate … gates sales, which a lot of people knew.

But I obviously remember my grandfather fondly, we always used to go out in the bees with him, and probably got the butt kicked a few times deservedly, [chuckle] or got stung. But he was a real good man; he was like a second father to me. I’d be down there all the time at their place; it was probably a hundred yards down the driveway from us at the back of the house. His passions – obviously he loved sport which has probably followed right through to my father obviously, and then to me and then to my son – we’re all sports lovers. He was [an] active rugby player as a youngster, and then he was boxing; he never won a New Zealand title but I think he was pretty handy. But he refereed internationally, and in both professional and amateur bouts, and I can remember him, as a youngster, going to the boxing. And he judged such guys as … there’s a guy whose [?] George, and Manny Santos. And they used to box at the Municipal Theatre in Hastings, and he was a judge at the Commonwealth Games in Perth in 1962.

Did he go overseas to the war?

No. No. Although he was born in 1900, so he was too young for one … and Dad was born in ‘26, so he would have been thirteen when the war started obviously, so by the time he was getting old enough … Dad had [was] … quite bad asthmatic, so he probably wouldn’t have been able to go anyway.

And then the rifle shooting – Grandfather was keen on rifle shooting and I think he introduced dad to it as [at] a young age as [a] lot of kids did then. And he went on to basically be – well, Dad died last year, end of June, and the President of the NRA, National Rifle Association of New Zealand, basically described him as probably New Zealand’s best shot from 1950 to 1980, which is a significant period, thirty years, over when the sport was extremely strong, so … And as I probably jokingly tell people, but it’s probably true, he wasn’t a great sire because I certainly couldn’t live up to his reputation.

[Chuckle] You’re still with shooting though?

I’m still shooting, I still enjoy it, but yeah, I’ve never really got into the … I’ve never nominated for anything international or anything. I’m competitive and enjoy it, but it’s more a pastime than a sport. I was more into my rugby to be honest.

Talking about your grandfather, George – he was a great worker amongst the rifle clubs. The Hastings Miniature Rifle Club, he was instrumental in putting together and building the clubrooms and the rifle range they’ve got now. And the hours and hours that he spent knocking nails out of old boards, and concreting and – he was a great quiet motivator.

Yeah, that would be him. He was certainly a … you know, a lot of people had a lot of respect for him, and he was certainly a worker. But I tell you what, when he got older he would still be climbin’ up stuff, and I mean – he had a fall out at the rifle range at Okawa, and I always remember my father saying, “Oh, the silly old bugger, he’s got to know what he’s …” Well, as you can imagine, Dad was exactly the same. He come [came] and did some painting round here; we’ve got a two storey A-frame house, and he built this tower out of old bloody kiwifruit discarded framing. He climbed up the top of it and he couldn’t quite reach the peak of the house, so he had an old wooden beer crate on top of it so he could …

Oh, you’re kidding!

… and I got up there and it was swayin’ in the wind and I was back down again pretty quick, to be honest.

He came from an era where there was probably no hydraulic things to lift it up …

Oh, yeah.

… you had to do it by the skin of your teeth.

And there was certainly nothing like OSH – Occupational Safety. [Chuckle] Yeah, they would’ve had a fit if they’d seen it, but never mind.

So you know, my grandfather – basically he was very proud of Dad’s achievements at shooting; he followed him round. But my grandfather’s work in the NRA – he was a life member for quite a few years – that’s the National Rifle Association. And then Dad followed on and was a life member, and I’m a councillor but I’m not a life member; I haven’t done anything I believe that would put me in that sort of frame, but – yeah.

I mean, you’re part of the team – that’s important.

Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s good, and you know, shooting’s been a passion as I say – my grandfather followed him fondly, and I know when Dad won … he won a Commonwealth Games gold medal at Christchurch in ‘74 – and my grandfather was that proud. And so was I; I’d just graduated from the Police so I’d been graduated about four months beforehand so I couldn’t get down there; I was working. But I certainly know it was a pretty proud moment in my life, and it cost me a couple of beers actually – I had to shout a few of my mates.

[Chuckle] So he won the medal at the Commonwealth Games; the Ballinger Belt?

New Zealand title is the Ballinger Belt, which he won three times and got runner-up four times. It’s a record, but – yeah. There’s actually only one man – and it’s a guy by the name of Major Masefield – who’s won it more, and he won it sort of before the war era and then after. And his last win was in 19 – it was Dad’s second year down there, so I think it was ‘48. And Dad got runner-up, so if Dad’d won that one they would’ve had four times [?]. Dad for a long time was the only person alive that had won it three times; there’s now about three or four, but the numbers shooting at Trentham now are … we used to have four and five hundred regularly, shooting every year for the Ballinger Belt; now it’s about eighty, ninety, unless there’s an overseas team there. So the competition was a heck of a lot stronger back then; a lot harder to win, just numbers-wise. There’s still some great shots out there now, but the game’s changed.

Yes, I was quite friendly with Tony Loughnan. It certainly had changed – everything was rifles.

Yeah, well Tony was a wonderful guy, and he got a bit of a write-up. It was actually the last time he really … well, he finished up having a brain tumour, but the last one he competed he came runner-up and I won the B Grade; came seventeenth overall, so the paper sort of did a big write up on us, so that was [a] pretty good achievement for me, especially for where I sat in the pecking order. But Tony was one of those guys … one of those unlucky guys that never won the Belt, but he was good enough to win it. Very hard to win – everything’s got to go your way and …

Yes, he took a whole lot of us out to Okawa while he was still fit and well, and I couldn’t even hold the rifle up. [Chuckles]

Yep – to be honest, you’ve got to … even when you are a regular shooter, at the start of the season you get down and you slap the sling on, and … It’s not a natural position, and you think, ‘Ooh, this is hard work’, but you’ve got to lie out on the back lawn and hold the rifle, and … apparently the neighbours get a bit upset if you fire live rounds, but we don’t obviously.

I’ll tell you one of the funniest stories when Dad won that gold medal, Mum went down to watch; she went down a couple of days beforehand and watched the competition. And she was pretty proud, and then the next morning he got up and he had a whole lot of tel – you know, that was the days before internet and emails and Facebook and everything else; it was you know, a whole lot of telegrams of congratulat[ions]; there was a pile of them there. And he said to Mum, he said, “Oh, I’ll open them after I’ve dropped you off at the airport.” So he arranged … I don’t know, they called them courtesy cars or whatever, and drivers then, and they took Mum out to the airport and off she went, flew back home to Hawke’s Bay. And he went back to his digs in Christchurch and started to open up the telegrams. Well, in amongst it was a [an] envelope and it was an invitation to have lunch with the Queen on the … what’s the name of the boat, the Queen’s ..? The ‘Britannia’.

Yeah, ‘Britannia’. So it was an invitation for him and Mum to go to lunch; and there was a number of New Zealand[ers]; it was actually not because he’d won the gold medal, it was because shooting … a lot of the hierarchy in England, the lords etcetera do target shooting, so the Queen actually, or the Royal Family take a bit of interest, so … There was only two New Zealanders I believe, were invited and that was Dad and Valerie Young – well known New Zealand athlete, shot putter, I think, Valerie. But there was not a big crowd, it was a very select few; but Dad sort of looked at it and I think he sort of thought, ‘Flight back to Hawke’s Bay, new dress, hat …’ [chuckle] ‘oh, I won’t mention it.’ So he didn’t; and he went to lunch and he got there, and he introduced himself as he got to the door, and they said, “Oh – you’re sitting next to the Queen.” So [chuckle] Dad sat directly next to the Queen, opposite the Prince, and the seat that Mum would’ve occupied was next door to the Prince. So you can imagine … well I know I can just imagine if I’d done it; I mean you’d have a lot of brownie points to make up, that’s for sure.

That would have been quite an occasion.

Yeah, it was, and in Dad’s own way … prior to him moving out of his flat when he moved to an apartment at Mary Doyle he cleaned the house out, and turfed out the invitation from the Queen – didn’t think anyone’d want it.

And he would handled sitting with the Queen, ‘cause he was that sort of person … he was quiet.

Yeah – oh, he was very quiet. He would have sat there, but yeah, he would’ve chuckled away; he wouldn’t’ve said anything inappropriate, anyway. I might’ve, but … [Chuckles]

Well now coming back, do you know anything about your grandmother? Where she came from? ‘Cause she was obviously a very strong …

Yeah – I don’t know. She was a Garforth – that was Grandad’s wife, Mary Garforth, and she was a great lady and she lived on ‘til about 198… She was eighty-five, I think.

Was she a local person?

Yeah, I think she was, yeah. I mean I’m terrible, I don’t know a lot of the history prior to that.

No that’s all right because a lot of the …

I know my Grandy’s grandmother came out on a boat, and I’m just trying to think – there was actually a big extended family reunion back in the early nineties here in Hawke’s Bay and a guy that’s – he played rugby for Hawke’s Bay; guy Graham Wiig, prop – he’s a distant relative somewhere along the line. And yeah, so she came out and she was a lovely lady. And the kids – first-born was Aunty Molly; who’s a Beach … she married Allan Beach, and they had a number of kids.

They were the racehorse Beaches, were they?

No. No, no. They were all over the place. They lost one son, he actually joined the Police for a while and then he went overseas, and he ended up … they’re still not sure exactly what happened to him; he got found in the harbour at Sydney and drowned. Whether he committed suicide or whatever … Gerald Beach – I don’t know if you know Gerald Beach, that [who] had Diva’s? [Diva Bar & Restaurant] He’s my cousin, he’s one of the younger kids. So they had half a dozen children.

And then next born was Dad; and I had two sisters – Desraie, known as Daisy, married Paul Woolf. He was a helicopter pilot round here for a long time. That’s my older sister, and she’s four years older than me; and my younger sister who’s three and a half years younger than me is Robyn; she’s now Robyn Brannigan, married Kerry Brannigan – he’s [a] shearing contractor and that round here. So we’re still all local. We obviously still see each other all the time.

So you went to school in Hastings?

[NB: Garden power tools in background]

Yeah, Hastings Central, Hastings Intermediate and Hastings Boys’ High, so every school I went to I got slightly closer to home, but not much. [Chuckle] So bussed in – we used to walk from Riverslea Road South. We lived between Algernon and Davis; we used to walk down to Davis Road to the corner of Railway Road and catch the bus every morning and home from school and walk back, ‘til we got old enough. I think I was probably about Standard 3, Standard 4 when I started to bike to school.

What sports did you play at school?

I played a little bit of cricket. At Central School John Howell was my cricket coach and to be honest I was probably one of his failures on the cricket field. He was a great cricketer himself. I always remember bowling one day, and I bowled one, probably served up a great, nice, juicy full toss at this guy, and he hit the ball and got caught. Next guy came in and I probably served up something similar, and he tried to hit me out of the ground and got caught as well. And then old John Howell – he was umpiring, and sort of said, “You’re on a hat trick”. I was probably in Standard 4 at that stage, and the next ball missed the pitch completely, I was that nervous. [Chuckles]

So I played rugby; I was only a little fellow at school actually, believe it or not, and loved rugby at school. Too small to make Ross Shield; went on to Intermediate – too small to make any impact there, just played. Same at high school. My last year at high school, it was all weight-based then to get in the First XV. I wasn’t heavy enough, and I didn’t play a high enough grade the year before so I didn’t even get a trial for any of the XVs. I got dragged into the … early on the Fourth XV were lacking backs, so I was playing in the back. Merv Lewis was the coach; I’ve actually since caught up with Merv on the golf course. But he coached us. We went on to beat the Third XV by the end of the year, and then the following year I went to Wellington and I grew pretty quickly. I was just at that development stage, and I actually ended up going from Hastings Boys’ Fourth XV to making the Wellington Under 18 rep [representative] team. And then I went on to play Wellington Colts when I started to play senior rugby in Wellington for the Wellington club, which was a … we got runner-up the second year I was there in ‘76, for Petone – at their peak they had Andy Leslie, John Duggan, Ian Stephens … so yeah, they had a top team, and they just pipped us both finals basically, or they finished up effectively being finals – the only games we lost all year. Made the Wellington Colts that year, and then I went off to Northland, and I had a couple of runs for Northland; played a lot of sub-union rugby.

You were in the Police at that stage?

I was in the Police then, so I played for New Zealand Police team; played for New Zealand Combined Services team for a few years; Police team for a number of years, and ended up playing rugby until I came back here. I was just short of thirty-five, and I was playing for Hastings Old Boys. I played … sort of like … it was a mid table … they had a split division at that stage, and we played in this final. I was meant to be playing golf, and got talked into playing – I didn’t want to – ended up playing and tore my ACL [anterior cruciate ligament] off my knee. I should’ve stayed on the golf course, to be honest. But yeah, so I was right into my rugby, and shooting was a sideline sport. And golf’s another social sport where I make up the numbers, but I enjoy it.

So how long were you in Northland, Bob – in the Police?

I was in the Police for about thirteen and a half years in Northland. My wife’s from there.

So that was Whangarei?

Yeah. Whangarei, I went to training in Wellington at Trentham, ‘72 ‘til ‘73 – nineteen months; graduated in ‘73; worked in Wellington where I met my wife in Wellington. And she was a trainee dental nurse, and I met her at the end of ‘74 and then we got engaged. And then – she would’ve liked to’ve stayed in Wellington; we would’ve loved to’ve stayed in Wellington, ‘cause I was loving the rugby and that there, but her job took her back to Whangarei which is her home town, and I followed her. We got married in ‘77 and I was up there till ‘89, so … start of ‘77 ‘til mid ‘89.

So you got a good feeling about Northland?

Yeah, yeah, I love the north, got a lot of friends up – all my rugby mates are up there, and we still go up there regularly. Jan’s dad passed away two and a half years ago now, and then her mum was ill most of that two and a half years, to be honest; she was ill when he passed away. And then we were back and forwards up north very regularly. Brand new ute that’s got that many kilometres run up on it from going up there; just about knows its way automatically there. But still love the north but Hawke’s Bay’s something special too, to be honest.

Yes, I hope you have more luck with the north than I do – I had fourteen days of rain, and it rains quite differently than it does here.

Yeah, it rains very heavily.

But it was interesting to go back and see some of the places that I had been to in the past, you know, sad towns like Kaikohe and Kaitaia; but some were really nice …

That’s the north; it’s a real … I obviously worked there a long time, I did team policing and stuff there, so we did a bit of work in Kaikohe and Kaitaia, and I played rugby up there a lot. Yeah, there’s a huge difference in I suppose the wealth of the town when you compare say, Kerikeri to Kaikohe; and you can just about throw a stone between the two, they’re that close.

I went from Kaikohe to Kerikeri, and I couldn’t believe that all of a sudden there’s this vibrant town …

And you go to Kaikohe, and it’s – a lot of people unemployed, there’s a lot of drug issues, it’s just – yeah. It’s a bit sad, to be honest.

So then you came back from Whangarei to Hawke’s Bay?

Yeah. I came; I decided – at that stage we had two young children. Our daughter, Sarah, was three and a half, and my son Matthew was five months old. And we decided … I’d done my exams, and we were down to one income, so I thought I’d better start doing something. So I did my exams, got my Sergeant’s; looked to come to Hawke’s Bay ‘cause they paid for your transfers, all your real estate fees etcetera. And [the] plan was to come here for four years, but we came here and my wife, Jan, got a job with an orthodontist; and probably also round that time Mum got sick and she passed away in ‘93. But it was sort of everything – the kids were in good schooling – the kids went to Lucknow School, then to Havelock Intermediate, and [our] daughter went to Havelock High; [our] son went to Hastings Boys’. But we just decided to stay I think, without even really talking about it – it was just a mutual thing we thought.

What are your children up to these days?

Daughter Sarah – she’s got a little girl but she’s working part time this year – she went back full time last year. She’s a teacher in Taupo (Taupō, I should say … pronounce it properly). And then my son is over in Sydney. He was right into his rugby, he played Hawke’s Bay Sevens here, and he actually got called into the … he was playing Saracens and he was attached to the squad … can’t remember how many years ago. It was Danny Lee and Potsy’s first year, and Matt got called in for the shield challenge when Zac Guildford got injured … broke his leg at training the first day he went there. So he went over to Sydney and played; he actually got in the New South Wales Sevens squad, but ended up dislocating his shoulder. And then they started a provincial competition over there, and he was being shoulder-tapped to play for the Northern Rays; and then ended up … prior to that in a club game, snapped his patella tendon in a pre-season game. So he had three major injuries in about three and a half years. Well, just – I mean they’re not injuries from being soft, they’re not injuries from being unfit, they were just basically the breaks, you know, literally. Fortunately now he’s not playing; he’s coaching over there in Northern Suburbs, so we’re quite happy about that, to be honest.

But yeah, there’s lots of things out there, and as you say – I mean I love the game. I would’ve kept playing probably, beyond thirty-five, if I hadn’t done the old ACL. And I love watching Matt play, but there’s no way you’d like seeing … and once it starts affecting your work and your lifestyle it’s time to get out of there. That’s what he said to us: “Someone’s trying to tell you something, Matt”, so with those injuries … which is a shame ‘cause he’s a blimmin’ good player – I believe he was better than I was.

So you have one grandchild? Two grandchild[ren] – he’s now got a little boy that’s [who’s] only just been born in January over in Sydney – him and his girlfriend.

What’s his name?

His name is Archer. Yeah, so we’ve got another Gordon generation to go. It’s actually quite funny, Dad – we’ve got all his medals from winning the Ballinger Belt, and his gold medal; plus my grandfather kept all the paper clippings and he put it on old cardboard and it was in a great big folder. And it’s … I mean it’s really hard to keep, so that’s my project this year, is I’m going to get Dad’s – the special medals. And another thing he won was the St George Cross, which is one of the big shooting matches – they have the Bisley Championships over in England. The Queen’s is the major one, and then the grand aggregate is the aggregate of the matches, which is another major one. The other major trophy is the St George’s. It’s shot over three hundred, six hundred and nine hundred yards and he won that in 1976 … ‘76 I think it was, yeah. So we’ve got those, [hum in background] so we’re actually … my wife’s talked [about it] – what we think we’ll do is we’ll get them framed; put ‘em in a decent frame and …

What’s that noise? [Referring to hum] It’s stopped.

Oh, it might be the water.

It’s a tap turned on.

Yeah. Yes, so we want to keep them, and if you put them in a big display case, you know, like I’m thinking beyond me being here. I could put them in a display case, keep them in the house; but then at some stage they’re going to go, “What are we going to do with that?” So if they are in something more manageable like a couple of photo frames and framed properly, and then all the clippings and that I’m actually going to cull it a bit, but go through, photocopy, and end up putting them in a decent photo book – you know those photo books you can make up? And then if my sisters want a copy they’re quite … you know. And do a bit of a write up on you know, the events and the history of the shooting so that can get passed from generation to generation.

Well especially on the sport shooting – I think we’ve got to make sure [it] is recorded forever …

That’s good.

… because there may not be another Gordon as a shooter. You may be the last of the line.

I could be, yeah. Matt was keen, but he hasn’t got into it in Sydney. If he came back here I’m sure he’d probably …

We used to look on your father with awe at his achievements, because he was such a quiet humble man; never ever leapt in the air and …

Yeah, and that’s exactly how he was descr[ibed], even at his funeral that’s how he was described – humble. He was actually a very shy man in a lot of ways but he had a steely determination, and you could see him on the rifle range, you could see that glint in his eye. I mean there was a couple … I related it at his funeral and that, and one was … oh, I can’t remember how old I was, probably in my twenties … and he’d shot at eight hundred yards this day and got a bit of a thumping. And I got up and I said, “What were you doin’?” And he said, “Oh”, he said, “harder than you think.” And I said, “Oh, it doesn’t look very hard.” Anyway, I got down and away I was goin’, and I was shootin’ – I’d get a two or a three on one side of the target and I’d get a two or three on the other, I didn’t know where they were going to come up, and I was gettin’ an absolute caning. [Chuckles] And I could feel this presence behind me and I turned round and he’s sittin’ there, and he’s got this grin on his face; and he didn’t have to say a word and when I got off I knew – he just had this word, and it was, “Now, what d’you think now, son?” [Chuckle] But he didn’t have to say that – I knew. [Chuckle]

Yes. There’s three generations of full-bore rifle shooting plus some small bore mixed in with your grandfather …

Yeah.

… but it’s a big achievement for a family, and for the district. One day someone’ll say, “Well, who was Maurice Gordon?” Go to the computer and it will all be there.

That’ll be brilliant, ‘cause we had probably … oh, I never went down there when Grandy was shooting; he’d finished shooting by the time I started shooting in ‘72, but I did go down there four or five years when we went down; the three of us were there, which was great and we’ve actually got a photo amongst his archives of the three of us standing together when I was seventeen, and Grandy was … he would’ve been comin’ up seventy-one at that stage.

We did a lot of stuff together; we went over to … and Grandy had this little Hillman Imp that he won in a raffle … and we went in that to the Shield challenge in 1966 when Hawke’s Bay took the Shield; the three of us together. That was hilarious, especially when Grandy tried to pass someone goin’ up the hill – probably the old Titiokura, I think. But in those days she was a pretty rough and windy road, and Dad saying, “What are you doin’?” And he couldn’t get past this car anyway, he didn’t have enough power in this thing, so he pulled in back in the line. And we got to the top of the hill and we just saw this line of traffic forever; [chuckle] and it was all the Hawke’s Bay people headin’ to Hamilton to see us bring the Shield back.

When I started shooting in the mid fifties, we used to have a rifle club at Mangateretere, that was the Hastings Rifle Club. There were small bore rifle clubs, and I’m pretty sure we had one under the hall at Haumoana too.

Yeah, and I know there was one under the hall at McLean Park, in one of the stands. I mean even full-bore ranges, they were all over the place; there was one at Craggy Range. But that was in the days – I think it sort of eventuated between the First and Second World War and after. Well everyone used to walk to the range just about, so you had to have one reasonably close. And it was quite a big sport back then, but obviously now it’s …

You would’ve noticed quite a difference in rifles over time, too …

Yeah.

… when I look at some of the old rifles that they used to shoot with – that your father used to shoot with.

Yeah. Well basically they shot with .303s and they were just – there were [was] nothin’ flash about them, they were just the standard .303 that they used during the war; and that’s what Dad shot with and he was the last person to win the Ballinger Belt with a .303 in 1970, ‘cause 1971 they converted to .308s. And I actually … my first year when I first started shooting, I shot with a .303; with his .303 that he won the Belt with. And that could shoot better than I could, but the .308s have gone. It’s just like small bore target rifles – you remember the old BSA target rifles? When they first came in in the early seventies they were either – a Parker Hale was very much like a BSA; and then they had an Omark, which was a bit sleeker, and more like a .303 sort of more the size. They’ve eventually gone into sort of a more … thumb grips and yeah, they’re quite different and they’re so much more accurate now, you know, like – the bull’s eye’s got smaller and smaller. It’s not because we can shoot better; it’s ‘cause the rifles can shoot better.

Yep. So now you’ve retired from active policing but you still have an interest in policing. You said you’re the Arms …

I do. There’s a few of us go round Hawke’s Bay on the Firearms arms Unit, so anyone that’s applied for their firearms licence, I go and interview them, their referees and check their security and then … I subcontract to the Police basically; they pay me per application, and a bit of mileage, and I put in a claim once a month basically so that keeps me occupied. Still playin’ a bit of golf – sometimes okay and other times not so okay, like most golfers, but yes, I enjoy it. Well … [chuckles] sometimes it’s not that pleasurable, ‘specially when you’re amongst the trees, and … but yeah, I love it. And it’s probably more the social aspect that – you know … So yeah – family’s all good; my wife’s still working for an orthodontist, kids’ve both got young families now.

You’re living in a little oasis not far from the village …

Yeah. It’s walking distance. We’ve just actually this last weekend had – which is pretty rare I would believe; my wife and I did a sixty-one day bus trip through Europe in 1982, and we have just had our thirty-fifth reunion. We held it here in Havelock, all the …

People that went?

Yeah, there was my mate who owns the Havelock North Motor Lodge, he had eight rooms booked out, and there was [were] seventeen people stayin’ there and they were all from Australia and Canada. And we did the Mission on Saturday night; we went round the wineries yesterday – we got a bus through Nimons – and we’ve reminisced, and actually two couples stayed on yesterday so my wife and I had lunch with them and then they came here for tea last night so it’s been a pretty long weekend to be honest – bit weary, but …

That’s great. Okay, I’d like to say thank you, Bob, for giving us this part of your family history; history’s never finished, we can add to it.

No, that’s brilliant.

But thank you very much.

Pleasure, Frank.