Sleeman, Joy & William Noel (Bill) Interview

Today is the 22nd day of March 2003. [2018] I’m interviewing Joy and Bill Sleeman on their family, particularly a lot of their interest in the Hastings Musical Comedy Company. Joy, would you like to start off by telling me about some of the history of your family?

Well I was born and bred in Hastings. Dad’s family grew up in Tomoana … they lived at Tomoana and worked at Tomoana, and so I’ve been born and bred in Hastings. I went to Mahora School and then Hastings High School which is now the Boys’ High, and then I went hairdressing at fifteen. So I was hairdressing ‘til I got married just a few years after that. But met Bill through the Musical Comedy.

Yes, so what was your interest in the Musical Comedy Company? Did you go there because you were a singer or a dancer?

A dancer. ‘Cause my father and his brother were all involved with the theatre building the scenery. Dad came home one night and he said “oh, they need some more girls in the ballet.” I said “no, no – don’t think so.” “Well, give it a try”. Because Ivena Pothan was doing the ballet at the time. Well so he knew Ivena well. “Oh, all right!” So anyway, went along … like, that night for rehearsal, and when I turned up none of the other girls had learnt ballet. ‘Course Ivena puts me in the front to demonstrate all the steps and everything else, and I was highly embarrassed, you know. [Chuckle] But anyway, it went from there and we had a lot of fun and joined in all the ballets. Well then of course we met the boys, you know, so that was 19 … ‘Show Time’ ‘53, wasn’t it, I think I joined? That was 1953.

So you met Bill there – Bill where did you come from then?

Bill: I came from Gore … you know, with all the Rs? [Chuckle]

Yes – and the Creamoata factory.

Joy: [Chuckle] Yes.

Bill: Right. Now my mother suffered from asthma and it was suggested she come north. So we came to north, and I was four at that stage… notice the R?

Joy: [Chuckle]

Yes … still there.

Bill: And I went to Parkvale School – we lived in Willowpark Road, and then we got shifted into the Holts’ house in Kennedy Road.

Joy: No. Caroline Road.

Bill: Caroline Road, sorry. Caroline Road. And during that time I got a job at the Herald-Tribune, and then I worked from one position to another until I finished up in charge of all the printing area. And by this time I’d saved enough money to build a house. And … oh, I met Joy at the Musical Comedy Company.

Joy: Even made a dancer out of him. [Chuckle] Yeah.

Bill: I had to get a bit of practice in …

Joy: [Chuckle]

Bill: … what we were doing, and I went around to her place and I lifted her up … 1,2,3, Up!

Joy: And one of the dancers.

Bill: Unfortunately we lifted her right up underneath a chandelier and smashed it to pieces. [Chuckles] And her mother wasn’t so …

Joy: Was not amused. [Chuckle]

Bill: And we had a heck of a job getting a new one.

Because it would have been glass in those days, it wasn’t made of plastic.

Joy: Yes, yes. No, a glass sort of inlet. But luckily we found another one in Napier, so we were able to replace it. So, we didn’t do that again. [Chuckle]

Bill: No. So anyhow, I continued to work at the Tribune and when I retired I got a lot of good [?comments?] from those people. While I worked there, when I was on holiday I’d always look in at a newspaper – well, they were in my industry. And I’d get a few good ideas and I’d take it back to the Tribune and I’d tell my boss about it and next thing – well, that’s … get that in, and I become [became] his curly-headed little boy. Everything I did seemed to be right. But anyhow, from there on … yeah, we decided to build a house and get married, and had a couple of daughters, and both of them have been wonderful to us. And that brings us up to today.

All right. Well did you play bowls or anything like that?

I played bowls – I played for Hawke’s Bay. [Chuckle] Juniors. Won a cup in Palmerston North, we went down there and played. Won the [?Flett?] Cup as they called it.

And have you retired totally from sport now?

Yeah, more or less, because I can’t drive.

Righto, well thanks for that, Bill. Right Joy, we’ll come back to you then. You were at the Musical Comedy Company, and if you carry on …

Joy: Yes. And we sort of got into a group with Keith and Peggy, and one or two of the others, and we used to go to the old-time dances altogether. It was a wonderful time, you know, in our lives then. We really had a great time.

Doing all the modern dancing … and a friend and I, we both lived out in Havelock and we used to bike in and learn to dance.

Yeah.

We actually danced together, those days.

Yeah [chuckle] … that’s right.

Bill: Did she teach you square dancing?

No, no.

Joy: ‘Cause one of the shows, you did a square dancing item, didn’t you? In one of the musicals. And … oh no, all the old time, you know, we used to have a ball. And talking about the balls as well, you know – they were marvellous in the Assembly Hall.

I interviewed Bernie Meredith. Bernie used to run the Top Hat in Napier.

Oh yes, yes.

He ran it from 1960 to 1970, ten years. We used to go every Friday night … he used to shut the doors at eight hundred.

Oh, I say!

And there was no booze in there.

No, no, and you still had a great time!

Later on there was the Cabaret Cabana …

Yes, yes, which was fun as well. [Speaking together]

… and you carried in boxes of booze, into O’Brien’s.

But that was a fun place too, wasn’t it?

Yes. We made our own fun.

Yeah, well that’s right. You didn’t need telly or anything else … didn’t know the difference then. Oh no, it was fun – you really did, and then you sort of … that in between, and then you’d be practising for the next show coming up, you know? [Speaking together]

That’s right.

Sort of all together, all again. No, those days were really fun.

And you made mention earlier, Joy, about your association with the Tomoana Players. A lot of us, while we went to the shows, we didn’t realise that the Tomoana Players were in fact from Tomoana.

Tomoana, that’s right. Yes. But no, no – they were all Tomoana-ites. And the year I was in it, in ‘Charley’s Aunt’, I was the outsider. But they couldn’t get any of the girls in the office or anywhere else that would do the part – ‘cause I was only seventeen, see, and that was the age of the character. So anyway, Dad sort of asked some of the heads – “oh! Yeah, get your daughter if she’ll come in”, so … ‘Cause my mother was a dressmaker, so no trouble with the costumes, you know. So that’s how I finished up in the Tomoana Players.

So where did you practice down there?

In the cool stores in the winter! [Chuckle] It was freezing! Yep. Oh, gosh! It was so cold! But, you put all your heavy coats on and didn’t think anything about it, you know. So by the time we got to the theatre, that was wonderful. [Chuckle] No … no, it was a long winter’s time when we did those rehearsals. But everybody did it, they all enjoyed it.

And then coming back to the Musical Comedy Company, it all changed when the one in Plunket Street burnt down?

Oh yes, yes. Davis Street … Davis Street. No, that was …

It was never the same …

… never quite the same after that, no. And it was so wonderful to have our own hall, you know? Never had that. ‘Cause we used to rehearse – what were the shows? The Hawke’s Bay Tyre & Rubber Company – you remember that?

Yes, yes, yes, I do.

Well, ‘course that was good in the winter time …

[Chuckle]

… everything was all heated, it was wonderful. You’d go in the little trapdoor you know? That was wonderful – that was Bill Wilson from Napier.

Bill: And it was always warm.

Joy: Lovely and warm! We enjoyed that, those years in the Tyre & Rubber Company. But no, sort of … the different places we’ve rehearsed, and you managed you know – there wasn’t a lot of room, but …

The memorable shows?

Oh – ‘Showboat’, I think has to be the … the one.

Gooch Parahi was in that?

Yes. Yes …

Yes, there was only the three …

Yes, that’s right.

… theatres and the Muni [Municpal Theatre] and …

That’s right. The Napier Operatic Society, you know? [Speaking together]

Bill: I enjoyed ‘Sally’. ‘Sally’ was the one I enjoyed the most.

Joy: Yes, yeah – well that was one of our early ones – that was a good one.  But sort of the most memorable to me, was ‘Showboat’, you know with all the … the Bridge Pa Maoris. [Speaking together]

It was grand, with all the …

Oh yes.

… the clothes … it was grand.

Yes! They were wonderful you know? And I mean we’d be sort of … “they haven’t arrived yet – they’re all out shearing … oohh, they haven’t arrived”, you know. They’d arrive – on stage. But it was nail biting … couple of times in Napier it was pretty nail-biting – they hadn’t arrived, see, they were right up-country shearing. But no, they made it.

Bill: But you couldn’t upset them or they’d walk out. [Chuckle]

So how many years did you take part ..?

Joy: Well … ‘53, and I think that last one was … oh, what was the last one I was in? Oh … can’t think of the last one. ‘Student Prince’ was the last one I was in.

Well that was pretty good too.

Oh, that was good too. But the lady that did it …

Very … much more formal.

Oh yes. That was a lovely show, and some lovely music in that. And Mary Bell – mmm, I must mention Mary Bell. Without her the shows wouldn’t have been half as good, you know? She was wonderful.

It’s funny how names pop up. ‘Course there was Ernie Rouse …

Ooh, yes. Oh, he was good … old-time band.

Janet Totty …

Oh yes, yes, yes. A grand-daughter learnt music off her. Well now, her husband – I went to school with Lee Totty. And you were sort of all involved in those days you know?

And of course the community wasn’t that big either – there weren’t so many people around.

No – that’s right. But you know, Greater Hastings, once that sort of got going you know, there was sort of a lot of entertainment in those days.

And so what did you do when you finished acting ..?

Well … didn’t really do anything then. I found it sort of … it got too hard with working, because I used to have a late night on a Thursday night, and I just found it was … I suppose I was getting a bit older, and I just found it too much, you know?

What was the name of your salon?

The Regis Beauty Salon – it was in the Hawke’s Bay Farmers Building, with Olwyn Dysart, who’s since passed away. Olwyn Bullivant she was then. Yup.

The glass people?

That’s right, that’s right – that’s who she married, George Bullivant.

I’ve just picked up all the books of the Hastings Rotary Club … it is ninety-four years old.

Probably in the Hawke’s Bay Farmers, did they have their meetings?

Yes, they did.

Yes, ‘cause there was a lot, you know. So much when that tearooms was opened.

The Blue Room …

Bill: Bloody hell, that’s right. [Speaking together]

Joy: That’s right. ‘Cause see, all our clients were farmers – you know, belonged to the Farmers, see, so they’d go up for lunch and … ‘cause I was the junior in those days and I used to go up and get a tray … have to get a tray, and bring afternoon tea down for them, you know. I knew the girls in the tearooms more than the clients.

Well you know, you could go to the grocery at the Farmers, and you could buy Canadian fresh smoked salmon …

Yes, that’s right.

… you could buy anything at those places.

That’s right.

Bill: Yeah.

Joy: And a shilling’s worth of sugar. [Chuckle] Yes, ‘cause I used to hop … I was … you know, junior, and had to go and get everything. ‘Cause there was a door at the bottom of the stairs and you went through to the groceries, you know.

So sort of a one stop shop, weren’t they?

Oh, it was. And it was a lovely shopping area too you know … Williams and Kettle over the road, which were very nice as well. No, no it was sort of … well, a life. I had – I think it was seven and a half years and then the lease ran out, and they wanted the rooms as offices so we had to move out. That was a blow, ‘cause Olwyn had been there a good ten … twelve years, I think she’d been there.

And your two daughters – their names are ..?

Joanne and Maree … no second names – no. Maree is a … IT consultant in Wellington, and Joanne is married with two daughters of her own. One’s in her third year at Massey and the other one’s in her first year at Massey.

What’s her married name?

Jackson … laugh – her husband is Mike Jackson … Michael Jackson. He’s an accountant. [Chuckle]

Is he Peter Jackson’s son?

That’s correct.  Yep. No, it’s a small world when you’ve lived in Hastings all your life, there’s always sort of somebody you know. Yep.

And so you’ve been retired a few years now?

Bill: We have, a few … yes. [Chuckle]

Joy: Yes, yes.

Bill: I’ve enjoyed it too, but I’ve played bowls you see … that’s in retirement, but … [speaking together]

Joy: Yes, yes. Yes, bowls kept him going.

And which club did you play for?

Bill: Hastings Bowling Club.

Joy: Closed down.

Bill: Unfortunately they closed down. And then I went to Kiatoa, but it hasn’t had the same interest.

Joy: Yes, they all sort of separated and went to different clubs. [Speaking together]

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Where was the Hastings Club?

Joy: In Hastings Street … the Municipal Theatre street … and you went further down in Massey Street. Well it was just sort of … just a little way past Massey Street.

I know. Because I used to belong to the Miniature Rifle Club. It was tucked in the back on … think it was old riverbed.

Bill: The river used to run right through that way.

Joy: Yes.

That’s right. And have you travelled?

Yes, well actually when Bill retired from the Tribune, the girls shouted us to America. Joanne was working, but Maree was still at varsity – it took her three years to pay Joanne back, but she paid her back.

But Bill had had an engineer out from America to look at the press, you know? And his wife sort of didn’t know … and they were staying right out – oh, what was the hotel?  Big hotel out … it backs onto the main road now.

Bill: Heretaunga was it?

Joy: The Heretaunga Motor Inn, I think it was. And so I went out and got her – I thought ‘what’s she doing out there?’ So I went out and got her, and we sort of took her around and had her here for meals, and … ‘cause she was absolutely lost out there you know, with Jens at work. Anyway, we sort of got very friendly with them.

Well then Joanne had a trip overseas and she went to America first. Well they insisted she came down and stayed with them. So he came up and met her – she’d gone to Disneyland, done all those things – and he came up and met her. So she drove back – she said “oh Mum, it was weird driving on the right hand side of the road”, you know. [Chuckle] But she said “anyway I got there”. She followed Jens all the way. And so anyway, they sort of had her there for a week or so. When we retired, Joanne had organised it all with Jens – we had about four days in Disneyland and all that, and then Jens came up. We were to meet him at midday outside the motel where we stayed, the ‘Howard Johnson’ across the road. And she’d arranged all that, so we stayed with Jens and Janet … oh, about ten days, didn’t we?

Oh, that would’ve been wonderful. [Speaking together]

We had a ball – they took us to different places – it was wonderful, you know. No, that trip was just out of this world, you know.

Bill: We’ve been to Australia a couple of times.

Joy: Yes. Yeah … no, we’ve had one or two trips away but …

Bill: Been down to the South Island, three times we enjoyed it so much.

Joy: Was Unique Holiday Tours, but it’s now Margaret’s Holiday Tours … Golden Tours. Yes, seen that advertised. No, well we went three times – we had a ball.

I used to go down three or four times a year – drive down to Winton …

Winton? Oh, that’s a long way.

… but a different way, and never got sick of it.

No. No, there’s something about the South Island – it’s just totally different, isn’t it? ‘Cause Bill is one of a big family – there was ten in his family, so he was quite spread around. And I think there was thirteen in your father’s family wasn’t it?

Bill: Yeah.

Joy: Yeah. Spread-out – Mataura, Winton …

It was par for the course. I had never ever been to Southland before, and I thought, ‘they’ve kept it a secret for all these years’ …

That’s right. It’s a different world down there, isn’t it?

… this beautiful, flat, wealthy place … the old city of Invercargill, and the old buildings of Mataura, and …

And Oamaru …

But there’s some places there … you’d never find them.

No, no. We loved it down south – it was really beautiful.

So you left Gore when you were four?

Both: Mmm.

It’s amazing you’ve kept the RRR, isn’t it?

Joy: One sister she used to be the same. [Chuckle] There’s just something, isn’t there? You know?

And so do you ever go down to the Musical Comedy Company these days?

Well not – I mean we’ve sort of disbanded now. No, well we haven’t had a sort of a get together for quite a while. And one person that used to sort of keep us all together was Jeannie Hall. Her husband, Trevor – he was only a little chap – had the most glorious voice. He was in the men’s chorus – had a beautiful voice. But Jeannie was the props. She did all the props you know, and if anything was needed Jeannie’d find it, you know. She was great. Well she sort of kept everything together, and if anything had to be arranged … ‘oh, leave it to Jeannie, she’ll do it’, you know. So that was in the later years.

Now is there anything that you’ve forgotten to tell me?

No, I’m sort of trying to think – Tomoana … no, I’m so sorry we haven’t got all those pictures of all those Tomoana Players, you know. I regretted it as soon as I knew Tomoana had gone into receivership. I thought ‘there’s all my photographs’ – it’s all I could think of, was the photographs had gone.

The steam engine that they used to have – Calvin Appleby rebuilt that totally there, and it was the pride and joy of the engineers.

I know. Well I know Dad worked on that a lot.

One day it just disappeared. No-one said where it went but it was sent to MOTAT [Museum of Transport and Technology] in Auckland. It’s a big museum, and I believe now it’s at the Tokomaru Museum south of Massey.

Yes, yeah.

But it just disappeared – all of a sudden it was gone. [Speaking together]

Well that’s how things could happen at Tomoana. [Laughter] I suppose they’d organised [cough] it between them, you know.

The old fire engine – that was a Dennis, wasn’t it? Well, my Dad’s funeral – ‘cause he was in the fire brigade. He wasn’t chief, he was a [an] under-chief but his funeral was on that Dennis. And it was the 2nd January, and he just came out of the church and it got blacker and blacker, and by the time he was ready to go … ‘cause the boys were going to march all the way to the cemetery … they got around the corner and they all hopped in the engine and away they went. It absolutely pelted down.

Did it really?

And we had them all back here – you couldn’t get in the back door because the … it was flooded to there; it was flooded at the front door. I’ve never seen such heavy rain as there was on Dad’s funeral, and we said “well, he’s not going quietly, is he?” [Chuckle] He died of a heart attack, so we said “well he’s not going quietly.” But that old Dennis – see I don’t know what happened to the old Dennis.

It’s somewhere around, I think.

‘Cause that was Dad’s pride and joy, was the old fire engine from Tomoana.

And you’ve got grandchildren … you said you’ve got ..?

Yes, two grand-daughters.

What age are they?

Caitlin will be twenty-one in June, and Victoria’s … eighteen? Nineteen. No, she’s only eighteen I think. Yep. It’s her first year at Massey so … no, they’re working hard.

Bill: And they keep in touch.

Joy: Yes – yes, they’re very good.

Bill: It’s nice to hear from them, you know.

That’s lovely.

Joy: And the young one was a ballerina, right through to her Advanced Teacher’s exam.

The pain that they …

Must’ve gone through.

… must’ve gone through to stand on their toes!

That’s right. You just appreciated them dancing on and off, but no idea of the rehearsals, and you know, everything that went on in the background.

Did you stand on your toes?

Yes, yes.

Did it never affect your feet?

Oooh … it did a bit, but you grinned and beared [bore] it.

You know, if a man was asked to do that … although men used to stand … but women seem to be able to stand …

On the toes, yep.

Bill: On their toes.

Joy: Well, we’ve seen Victoria … in winter time, she was crippled. She used to have chilblains on all her toes. She still went on to dance, you know? Absolute pain, you know, [chuckle] but she did it, so no, we’re very proud of her.

It’s going to be wonderful to see the old lady, the Opera House …

Oohh … be wonderful!

… finished and back again.

And see now earlier, my Dad used to be the spot man. So from the time I was about nine I used to go and see all the shows. I’d go with him.

Well I always remember his name being on the programme, and …

The Ice Shows.

And of course we had wrestling there, and boxing.

Yes. Yep, yep.

We had Jack Jones and Jack Baxter.

The two Jacks. The wartime …

Bill: Fun sessions.

Joy: Dad and Hec would have all [been] involved with those.

[Speaking together] The movies, and Wes Stanley’s ice-cream shop at the bottom.

Yep. Yep. That’s right. Now that was something – the last time the grand-daughter had a recital and I said to Joanne – this is, you know, in the theatre here. I said to Joanne, “I’d love to look out the back”, ‘cause I knew they’d done big alterations out the back. So anyway, I went in … I couldn’t find me [my] way out, and I couldn’t find me [my] way onto stage. The whole … where all the ropes, you know, all the things where Dad and Hec worked – that’s all gone. They filled that all in. And there was a huge scene dock which … they had the projector in there. The projector was a huge wooden thing on big legs … [speaking together]

Yes, I know it was, yes.

… and they’d pull it out on wheels, push it up to the front of the stage. That was all gone. I sort of felt the whole … what would you say? The texture of the theatre had gone, out the back …

They’d gutted it.

… they’d gutted it! And there was just nothing, ‘cause I stood there and looked all around, and thought ‘phh! Doesn’t even look like the theatre!’ you know? I was so disappointed – the whole character’s gone at the back of the theatre, so I don’t know what the front’ll be like but … yeah.

But no, those were the days. You’d wait for the gods doors to open and you’d up those stairs like a madman, and …

[Speaking together] That’s right.

… but no, those were the days. And I mean, even some of the shows that have been around – the ice shows – they used to have to take the front two rows of the seats out [speaking together] and they’d build the stage right out. Well see Dad was involved with that too. Well I saw quite a few of those shows – Megan Taylor and her father? I think that was during the war.

Bill: One of my elder brothers was the good rugby player. And we’d be sitting at the table and he would try to belittle me in front of the rest of the family. He’d say “oh, you can’t play bloody rugby, you wouldn’t know one end of the ball to the other”. And I thought ‘old b… – I’ll teach you, you beggar”. So anyhow, I finished up … I got in the Hawke’s Bay third grade team. The next year I got into the Hawke’s Bay Junior Squad. I thought ‘I’ve done enough to prove …’

That’s right. Okay, well I think on that note … we’ve got a kaleidoscope of …

Joy: Of where everyone’s come from … yeah.

… what you were doing and your interests. And when I think of the time people gave as volunteers to entertain … well it was self enjoyment – you didn’t have to be thanked because doing it was enough.

[Speaking together] No. No. And I mean weekends, Saturday and Sunday, we’d go to the theatre and help Keith paint the scenery, you know, or “I want that whole background painted.” “Righto”, so we’d all be there with paint brushes painting that, you know, and then he’d put the scene on it, you know? But – didn’t think anything of it, you know, it was part of our weekend.

He’s got a lot of those plans, of all the scenery he showed me.

Ooh yes – he was an amazing artist.  I’m glad he had that book then, that was a good excuse to go, wasn’t it?

Well that’s … but that’s the way it happens.

That’s right, that’s right.

Okay. Well thank you, Joy … [Clears throat]

Yes. Oh well, thank you for coming.

… and Bill, for giving us a piece of history that … if we don’t collect it now, it’s gone forever.

Well, that’s right.

And this is from the actors themselves.

[Chuckle]

Joy’s going to tell us some things she’d forgotten to tell us about, about her father living at Tomoana.

Tomoana, yes. Yes. Dad was a fitter and turner in those days. But earlier on when he was there with the trial – I think it was he and his brother used to catch the goods train on the railway line that’d go round the back of Wattie’s and everything, and they’d catch the goods train and get off at Frederick Street and walk to Mahora School. Now that wouldn’t be done in these days, would it?

It wouldn’t.

[Chuckle] It wouldn’t be PC, but that’s what they did – they caught the goods train in the morning and got off at …

And so Tomoana had …

Yes, there were … there was about … [speaking together]

… houses for their …

… about four … four or five houses – I’ve seen the photographs of them. And that’s where they lived, ‘cause my grandfather was a draftsman at Tomoana. He worked there for a long time. David Spence it was, Dave Spence.

Whakatu also had a street of houses.

Yes. Yes, they did.

‘Cause I never realised these houses all belonged to the freezing works. [Speaking together]

Whakatu – that’s right. Yeah, well I think Tomoana had about four or five. They all looked the same, you know, [speaking together] big verandah on the outside. But close to the railway line.

And having the goods trains to school …

The goods trains too – yes – we often laugh at that. Wouldn’t be done nowadays. So – it was just something that I remembered, you know.

Thanks for that – that’s neat.