Trask, Peter James Interview
8 February 2021
Good afternoon. Peter Trask of Hastings, who I am interviewing for the Hawke’s Bay Knowledge Bank; Peter’s a long-time resident of Hastings, very long, and he’s going to give us a talk on his full life going back to his grandparents. Good afternoon, Peter.
Afternoon. Actually, I didn’t have all my life here. [To] go back to the beginning, my great-grandfather came out to New Zealand at the age of nine. In 1842 they arrived in Wellington; his father only lasted fourteen months before he died. But his wife carried on looking after the children during a difficult time, trying to keep them clothed and fed. There was no old age … or pensions of any sort in those days, and of course they had to look after what they could. She took in washing and ironing, and whatever she could to make the money.
She married again, but not a very good marriage; it only lasted five weeks because he drank everything that she had that he could sell; took over the lot. And so she left; found she was expecting another one, so she had these four children which included my great-grandfather as the eldest. And the youngest was called a Trask even though his father was not a Trask; he was from this second marriage. However, it is one of the Trask tie-ups there are throughout New Zealand. He’s got a lot of his own … Joseph was the man … family expanded over the years in various quarters, and they are quite a tight little unit of their own, and they mainly lived around Wairoa.
My father was the eldest of my great-grandfather’s children. He had married a young lady who had come over to New Zealand from Scotland and she had four children. Unfortunately, two of those were drowned in a tragedy that happened [in] 1930, Easter Saturday. They were heading up to Eskdale to go to the sports that were on up there. They got as far as the … can’t recall it at the moment … the rock on the side of the road when you are heading north before you turn up toward Eskdale. That rock was where they stopped. They went down to the sea to have a look, and there was quite a big sea running at the time. And a big wave came up; washed my grandfather [and] my two younger uncles into the sea. I’ll leave the information in an article that I wrote for New Zealand Memories – you could get more information out of that. My father – luckily he was living in Marton at the time – just been transferred to Wanganui. He was in the Post & Telegraph. If he had been here on that day, no doubt he would’ve been one of the casualties as well.
My father started off as a telegram boy, but then he advanced into the telegraph side of it, and that was his whole life for the next forty-odd years that he was with the department. He came over to Hastings on a transfer to look after his mother and sister who were the only ones who survived the tragedy. They were living in Beresford Street at the time.
The earthquake – he was upstairs in the telegraph office, Post & Telegraph in those days. The Post Office and bank were down below and the telegraph was above. He said he could remember when the earthquake hit – the roof of the building was being lifted off the concrete walls, and you [he] could see daylight. The wall fell out into the yard, and he and his cohorts clambered down over the rubble and out onto Queen Street. Then they realised that none of the girls from the toll room had got out, so they made their way back into the office and found the girls all sitting there looking very much like the Black & White Minstrels. What had happened was, over the years the trains used to arrive at the station across the road in Russell Street, sit there puffing away, and all the soot had accumulated in the ceiling; and when the ceiling collapsed in the toll room they were covered with the soot.
Right next door there was another side of our family – my mother; she was working in the bookshop there. Her parents had been in the Railways for many years. She was born in Otautau in the South Island. My grandfather was shipped up to Otoko, inland from Gisborne. They were trying to put the railway through from Gisborne over the hill and down to Tāneatua so that the East Cape could be linked to Auckland by rail. They got to the top, but the war intervened and they stopped the building of the line; but in the meantime they had built the line from Napier through to Gisborne through the Whareratas. [Wharerata Forest]
From Otoko they went to Ōtāne … Mum can recall being at school in Ōtāne … and then back to Hastings where they lived at the end of Market Street. Market Street didn’t stop at St Aubyn Street in those days, it went across north of St Aubyn, and their house was one of three that were up the little side street. After the earthquake my mother as I say was working in the bookshop … Williamsons Book Shop, and she used to go over to the railway station each day and man a small kiosk there selling magazines and newspapers to the travellers going through. But after the earthquake the station was damaged, and she said she used to man the kiosk opposite the Women’s Rest. Well that’s another two blocks down, but however … maybe she had a drop there, I’m not sure.
From there Dad spotted her, being in the Post Office, and he got his cousin, Audrey Beil, to introduce him to this young lass in the bookshop; and as Mum said years later, a great romance started. My brother, Don, was the first of the children to be born; I was the second. I was born just after the war began in December 1939, and I went to school at Parkvale at the age of four. Previous to that I had been in kindergarten, which was down somewhere round about where the Civic Buildings are today. And I can remember cycling my little trike with the boy from across the road, down … what would it be? Riverslea Road … down St Aubyn Street and Princes Street, across to the Square … Queen’s Square … diagonally across Queen’s Square – there was a band rotunda in the middle of the intersection where the paths intersect in the middle of the square, and we used to have a little bit of a play up there first – then carry on down across Heretaunga Street, down Willowpark Road into the first street, and then down there to where the kindergarten was being held. It was the Army Hall in those days. I remember coming home one day, there had been quite a heavy rainfall and John and I were on our trikes zooming into the water and out, into the water and out, because the water was [had] flooded the gutters along there. But my wheel went a bit too far and I fell head first into the gutter. I was picked up, and a great crack across my backside, and told to get on my trike and cycle home. It was my mother. [Chuckle] We never knew it until years later; [chuckle] she told us that she always cycled along behind us to make sure we got there and then cycled on home behind us, and then hop up the drive, drop her bike and be inside when in our haste – or not haste – we’d make our way into our house; because we used to play on all sorts of things on the way.
Parkvale School I actually started at the age of four. The reason was, a lot of the men were at war and Parkvale was getting a bit low on the number of children to keep the number of teachers that they had. So as I say, I started after the August school holidays at the age of four. I’ve still got my school photo, and I’m sitting in the front row of it. I had Miss Bain in Primer 1, Miss Farrell in Primer 2, Miss Rickard in Primer 3 and Miss Westerman in Primer 4; then Mr Barry. And our classroom was an open building; there were four low walls and canvas sides to it, with a roof on it. The idea was that we would’ve been used to the cold; we would develop better immunities to flus and so forth; whether that happened or not I don’t know. But I stayed there until the end of Standard 2.
My father had been as I say, with the Post Office … the telegraph side of it; and he was well sought after to go and build new telephone exchanges; set them up around the country. First one that I can remember he was at was Levin – that was just after the war; Waipukurau was 1946; and ‘47 he went over to establish the new exchange in Hāwera. So after the first term of my Standard 3 year which I had at Raureka – because with Dad being over there we went and lived with my grandparents in Stortford Street – we went over to Hāwera, my brother and myself, and we started the second term at the Hāwera main school; my brother was at high school, the Hāwera Technical High School. So I remained there until my fourth year of high school, and then I got a telegram during that year from my brother, who said that Piet van Asch was looking for staff. My brother had been in the Air Force for a short time, and he had joined the Aerial Mapping staff on the navigation side. He’ll tell you more of that himself.
Don; Don Trask … Eric Donald Trask. My father’s name was Eric, and they didn’t think Donald Eric sounded right, so they made it Eric Donald.
Now, I came over to Hastings for an interview with Mr Van Asch and a test on the multiplex machine. That was the first instrument they had for plotting contour maps. The August school holidays I was asked to come back again and do a trial, and I produced a very small map with contours and all the rest, and that was sent over to Canada to a gentleman over there who was very high up in the photogrammetric side of things. He looked at the map and made a few comments; for instance, I had put on it a legend, and house, street, tree, which was common in those days in maps. He wrote on my map, ‘This is no fairy tale, so it’s not ‘legend’; they have other terms for it now’. I then came back the first week of December on my seventeenth birthday, and started my career with New Zealand Aerial Mapping.
Right – as I say, I started there 2nd December in 1956, and worked through right up to 1970, when I left there. In the meantime I had had some very interesting maps to draw. The aircraft used to take photographs that overlapped one to the other, but it was a sixty percent overlap on them. That overlap works very similar to your eyes. The first photograph is your left eye; the second photograph is your right eye; your brain fuses those together, and that is how the multiplex worked – same as the 3D movies they used to have years ago; blue and red glasses. One of the first maps I did was a contour map of Havelock North, and then I was introduced to controls. You had to tie the photographs to points on the ground which were surveyed in, to make sure that everything was level, the scale was correct.
Later on I used to work with Angus Wattie, Sir Jim Wattie’s brother. Angus had been the district surveyor in Napier for Lands & Survey, and when he retired he came to Aerial Mapping to carry on surveying. And I did a little bit around Havelock with him, but mainly we did the Napier-Taupo Road. The first piece was Titiokura to the Mohaka Bridge. There was a contour map had been done of that … twenty-foot contour interval, but a very large scale. I came in and did the two hundred feet to the inch scale with five-foot contours, and that was right from the summit down to the bridge.
The second one we did was from the top of the Kiwis down to across the Turangakumu deviation that went through. Those days you wound a way up to the top of the Turangakumu and then down the other side to the stream. Interestingly, when we mapped that we were to map the actual area over the summit; but while we were doing the control survey Angus and I spent our time at night in a little whare behind the shop that was halfway up the Turangakumu. And there was a mill behind the shop, and we were in one of the mill huts fighting off the rats that used to come out at night and try and chew our toes. When we were in that hut looking at the survey, the control points, we noticed that there was a forestry track from the mill down into the forest, and when they took the photos from the air they actually did a run down through that road as well. And I’ve written an article again for New Zealand Memories, where the forest track became the State Highway. That is how the alignment of the road at present down to what they call Double Crossing – there’s two big culverts down there – that is how that road actually eventuated … was from that survey.
The next one we did was the Rūnanga Deviation, and instead of fighting with the rats and so forth our survey was carried out from the comfort of the Tarawera Hotel. And it was very interesting; again, the road was not following the old road up through the Pohokura Mill but went down to a little bridge where it crossed the Waipunga. And while I was assisting in the survey there with Angus he stopped and pointed to a few calculations from his observations; and he said, “Oh, pack the slasher and take a walk along that ridge there – you’ll probably see the Waipunga Falls.” So I hacked my way along this ridge out onto a point, and sure enough there were the falls, which I photographed at the time. The photograph of that too was published in the Weekly News some years later. But the very interesting thing is, now my hacked track out onto the ridge … you drive out on it now and sit in a parking area and look at the falls. So that was, you know, one of the interesting parts of my job there.
We went from there into the forestry, and we did a lot of work for New Zealand Forest Products. Again, Don will tell you more about that because he did a lot of work off the aircraft as well as on the aircraft for that forestry work.
Around about then I was getting a little bit [of] itchy feet. I had been married for a couple of years; we had two children, Margaret and myself; and I was a little bit concerned that I would be doing the same thing in another thirty years that I was doing there. There was no real advancement. So I spotted an advertisement in a magazine for a job in the Waitaki Valley which I applied for; I got, and I spent the next two years down there doing contour maps from ground surveys for the Ahuriri Flood Protection Scheme. The theodolite I bought second hand from New Zealand Aerial Mapping, and it was Angus’ old theodolite that I’d used many years before.
From there we saw a lot of the South Island; made many trips to Mt Cook, and down to Invercargill where we had relations. It was a most enjoyable time, and we lived in the Waitaki village which was something in itself … no shops; everything came to us by truck – the vege man, the butcher – they all had their trucks and come [came] up and drive [drove] around the streets of the village and the ladies would go out and collect their groceries from there. The township was Kurow; that’s where my office was, and I worked in Kurow. And I’d get occasionally a phone call: “Could you bring such and such home for Mrs Smith or Mrs Brown in the village?” So I had my own little truck to do these runs. Our mail came from Oamaru in the bus, and the village would congregate at the little hall that was there, part of the hydro[electric] station set-up, and we would have a you know, yarn right there with everyone ‘til the bus arrived. The bags were taken inside, the doors were shut; and about half an hour later the doors would open and everything was all sorted, and we’d pick up our mail. There was no postman to take it round the village itself. There were two sections to the village – there was the old section which had been constructed when the dam was built in the 1930s, and the newer part of the village where houses were … they had built them to accommodate the increased staff that was for the builder, for the operation of the dam. And one of our houses we rented from the Department … Hydro[electric] Department.
Can I just ask a question? The dam – what was the …
Not the Benmore?
No, no. No, Benmore was being built when I was there.
And what year are we talking about at the moment?
1970 to ‘73, or ‘72. We actually saw a lot of the Benmore Dam being constructed – no, sorry, Benmore was built – it was the Aviemore Dam which was built between the two. Aviemore was an interesting dam in itself. Benmore was an earth dam, the Waitaki Dam was a concrete dam, the Aviemore was [a] bit of each, because when they started to build it they found that there was a faultline running underneath the dam. So they built the concrete dam upstream from where they wanted it to be, and an earth dam between that and the other bank, [dam] and when the lake was filled the concrete dam and the earth dam both slipped down and locked into the position where they were dammed off the river itself.
And we used to go up there quite often fishing; it was a beautiful fishing spot for trout. You could fish for salmon in the Waitaki itself; I must admit I went down there many, many times. I hooked one, but I never landed it. Another gentleman came in a day later and it was my fish he hooked, because part of its jaw was still on my hook [chuckle] and the hook was straight. That’s how he got off.
But I also put a bit of work there on guaging streams that went into the Waitaki.
The Waitaki catchment was interesting again, and it was in one river catchment. Most catchments are two or three rivers, but this was just one river that fed from the various lakes – Ōhau, Lake Pukaki and Lake Tekapo. They all fed into the Waitaki River. [Clock chimes] And the Ahuriri River came down into Lake Benmore.
Ahuriri? Same as Napier?
Yes, same as Napier. Yes, so that was the river that I had to map because the flood plain was three and a half kilometres wide at its widest point, and the river flowed down. If it flooded it used to flow out over this rather large area. Omarama was the centrepoint of that particular job, and the gliding club, which became internationally renowned, was at Omarama.
The Waitaki Valley also had the Hakataramea Valley [River] flowing into it. And that was the place where our great rugby captain, Richie McCaw, captain of the All Blacks [lived], up the Hakataramea Valley with his family, and he went to school at Kurow.
Digressing … back to when I was working on the survey of the Napier-Taupo Road. I’d arrive back at the hotel at night with Angus; he’d go and do some of his calculations and so forth, and he told me to follow this particular track down, “But be very careful of the building, it’s not very stable.” So I followed him down this track, and I came across this building which was swinging in mid-air basically; and inside were two hot tubs. And they were filthy! There was slime and everything growing all over them. So I cut a manuka bush and I cleaned out both tubs. One was for the ladies and one’s for the gents – originally built for those people who had problems with joints – arthritis and so forth – from Napier, and they used to go up there and sit in the pools. I used to enjoy those pools after a hard day’s slog out in the field, and arrive back at the hotel almost ready to go to sleep because the water was so calming and warm.
Now back to Kurow … after a couple of years there I decided that it was a little bit isolated for us. And there was a job had come up in Gisborne, so I applied for that and I was accepted for the Gisborne City Council as a [an] engineering assistant. And I worked there for three years. We did a lot of road building there; that’s where I learned most of my road side of it. And then in 1974, beginning of ’75, I actually got a job with the Waiapu County Council at Te Puia Springs. And I was the assistant county engineer there to Mr Brian Edgar, a Scotsman … a very broad Scotsman … who had come to New Zealand from … he’d been in Africa. From Africa he went to Canada and was up in the Arctic Circle, and from there he went out to New Zealand working for the Electricity Department, designing dams. He then got this job at Te Puia, and two years later I was his assistant county engineer.
In ’77 Ruatoria was a fairly wild sort of place, and we decided that our children would either have to go to boarding school or we would have to find somewhere ourselves. I managed to pick up a job at the Waipukurau District Council; the District Council had been originally the Waipukurau Borough Council and it had amalgamated with the Patangata County Council and became the District Council. So I was there ‘til 1989 when the big amalgamations took place around the country; the Waipawa County had amalgamated with the Waipawa Borough earlier on and we became the Central Hawke’s Bay District Council, so there were five actual councils made up that District Council.
My job both in Waipukurau District and the Central Hawke’s Bay District was roading, and so I did some very interesting roading projects there. One was the extension of the Cooks Tooth Road down in the southern area of the county. We hoped at the time to go through Tautane Station down to Herbertville, but Tautane decided no, they didn’t want the road to go past their back gate. But the road was actually constructed so that a large farm at the end could be subdivided into two farms, one for [each of] two sons of the owner of the farm.
Another one that I did was the Peacock Road extension where I had a very interesting time with a gentleman from the Department of Internal Affairs in Wellington, who came up to look at the job to see if the job was going to comply with the Internal Affairs requirements. That was: any cutting had to be seeded so that they could not be seen from a distance. Being a whitish sort of clay up there – it was papa below mudstone – but [of] course when that weathered it became a very pale grey, and no, that was not allowed to be seen from a distance. So we had to aquaseed all the cuttings where the road went through. The local farmer at the end, Mr Peacock … there were two brothers had two farms … when we finished the road to his boundary he then cut his own road up round through to his house, and this road could be seen for miles around. He didn’t have to aquaseed because … private property. So we had a good laugh on that one.
All the roads there were sealed; I saw them resealed, some three times. We were lucky there; our chips which we crushed from greywacke out at Tamumu [Station], they could be spread on the road. And I worked with Hawke’s Bay Asphalts who would put the bitumen on the road and then take our chips and spread those on the surface. There were quite a few other jobs required strengthening of the road. The area was quite well endowed with mudstone, which when it got wet become [became] rather slippery, so it was soft.
Some of the roads we actually did some experimental work on using the lime to stabilise the metal. We used crushed river metal, and also crushed metal which was commonly known as red metal; it’s actually weathered river metal, and that was going into clay as it weathered. So we’d use the lime to stabilise that material and the roads became very hard as the lime took up with the metal on the road.
Then [when] I was with Central Hawke’s Bay District Council my roading experience was used to set up jobs which were then surveyed, designed and constructed by either the local authority trading enterprises that had been set up [as] part of the amalgamation; because we were not supposed to have a roading division in competition with the local contractors, so these were set up as private companies under the umbrella of the Council. And one was for designing the engineering department of the Waipuk [Waipukurau] District Council; and the Waipawa District Council went over to form the Central Hawke’s Bay Works. The other was taken [taking] over the engineering side. The design work was taken over by Dover, Watts & King. We’re talking about 1989 … the end of ’89 for that.
I really worked there for a number of years, and then they decided that they would put everything out to contract. A new general manager had taken over so there was a large number of redundancies made, mine being from the engineering side of it. The other little department which was used for the Works was still maintained by the Council. Water, sewerage and the likes – that was bought by another company, and those staff went over there. But the workshop and myself, we were all made redundant.
So I set up my own P & M Trask Consultants Limited, to do design work, and I did some jobs for Dover, Watts & King up in the Hamilton area. And then I got a contract with the Hawke’s Bay Road Safety people; and we formed a new company basically, called Roadsafe Hawke’s Bay, and I was their first road safety co-ordinator. That actually took up most of my time.
And then I had a few jobs around for Hastings District Council, Napier and Wairoa District Council. But the [with] Roadsafe Hawke’s Bay, I was going round each of these places and running courses for driving and for school children. And this was done in conjunction with the Police, and I worked in with the school part of the Police Department. They had several of their Police dedicated to teaching round the schools.
The other one was the ‘Safe with Age’; that was taking the over fifty-fives and giving them some pointers in how to drive safely. A lot of them hadn’t had any instruction in roundabouts; other road safety things that had happened over the years. They’d just driven without having to think about all these changes. And they were two-day courses which we ran. After 1999 Roadsafe Hawke’s Bay decided that they wanted to take it in-house at the hospital, and so the road safety co-ordinator was seconded to the hospital. At that stage I thought … well, had enough of being pushed around by these various departments that were running Roadsafe Hawke’s Bay.
So I resigned, and I bought Zealandia Dry Cleaners down in Waipukurau. By that stage we were living in Hastings; I was round in Ballantyne Street, and James Morgan, who was actually tied up with our family as well – Stan Morgan’s wife was a Ferguson, which was part of my grandmother’s family. So James got me to help him when the Knowledge Bank was first being mooted in the building which we now occupy, and I worked there along with James quite a bit for that in getting things ready.
But family things have taken over; I ended up in and out of hospital with cancer there for a while. Luckily it’s all been corrected now and I’m free at this stage. And so as I say, I was with Zealandia Dry Cleaners for six and a half years. That brought me to just on seventy; I’d been getting my pension for six months [and] I decided that I would pull out and go as a retired man, and I could do a bit more for James. So that’s my life story; I’m still going.
Good. [Microphone interference] And that’s what we want you to do, keep going. Were you a member of any organisations or clubs?
Yes, my recreational side was photography. Being at Aerial Mapping, we had all the gear there we could use. But I got really into photography, and over the years right up to now, the digital. But I was in the Hastings Camera Club, Gisborne Camera Club, Photographic Society of New Zealand; and I used to go round all the conferences and so forth exhibiting photos. But once I got to Waipuk, bowls took over my time there and I went right through the various Departments at Waipuk, and then joined the Bowls Hawke’s Bay as they call it now – in those days it was just the Hawke’s Bay Bowling Centre. And at one stage I was president of that.
Oh, you were president of that?
And what about the Honours Board at the Waipukurau Bowling Club? Is your name up there?
Oh, my name’s up there as President, in one.
You didn’t tell us that …
Oh, well …
Don’t like to show off, eh?
No. But the only one I didn’t win to get on the Honours Board in Waipuk was Singles. There was one man … he used to take me out every time, and he’d never get anywhere either, [chuckle] but he got rid of me. [Chuckle] But I did win a Centre title with a group from Waipuk; first time that one had been won down there for … it’s about the 1950s. Very proud of that one.
Peter, did you do any travel overseas?
I went to Australia when I was at Aerial Mapping; I did six months at Australian Aerial Mapping. No tie-up between the two companies, just happened that way but Joe [?] from Wilde, the instrument makers, he put our second A8 in at Hastings – that’s the plotting machine that took over from the multiplex. And when he put that in he mentioned that Australian Aerial Mapping were looking for an operator. He was going back to install one there, so when he went back and was installing it he said that I might be interested. They rang me from Australia; I said, “Yes, I’d be interested.” So I did six months over there. I was actually half-way through it, and I nearly ended up in Japan. I was working out of there when they … not Japan, Hong Kong … they were going to map the whole of Hong Kong over a five year period, and Mr Barry from Australian Aerial Mapping said to me, would I be interested in that? Well it’d be something interesting all right, but it was taken; the contract went to Huntings from England, and so I came back to Mapping here. I went back to Australia when my daughter was over there; we had a short time there, and went up to Brisbane to the second to last week of the big do they have there, the Expo, and had a very interesting time round that too.
I was going to ask you what family did you have?
Two children – Brendan, who is now at the Courthouse here; he’s a … oh, I can’t think of his title, but he’s been there basically since he left school; and my daughter, Fiona, she’s up in Auckland. She’s been round several big companies up there; she just started with a new one, and she’s had a lot of overseas travel with those.
But coming back from Australia the first time, I wanted a particular camera and I ended up going to Norfolk Island to pick it up. It was shipped from Japan to Norfolk; I arrived in Norfolk the night after it arrived and spent a week up there. Loved the place, so when I left Roadsafe Hawke’s Bay my wife and I went over and we had a week’s holiday over there, and we had one week in Fiji.
What year did you and Margaret marry?
Hastings … St Andrew’s.
The minister was a friend; and the second minister who took the service with us was my cousin Ernie Trask, who was Happy Trask’s son and Charlie Trask’s brother. He’d gone into the ministry. And he came out, got married the week before us, broke his honeymoon to come to our wedding, but because he hadn’t been … he was ordained but not registered … he couldn’t conduct the legal side of the service. So Alistair Harray who was as I say, a friend of ours – he was from St Aidan’s, Parkvale [Mayfair] area – he took the first part of the service and Ernie took the religious side of it.
Yeah, I was going to ask you about Charlie; I knew Charlie very well, he was a super guy.
Yeah. Well Charlie’s father, Happy … and his father was down in Waipukurau, or out towards the beach – Joseph. Now Joseph was my great-grandfather’s son. He was the eldest one, and then there was [were] two girls, Dad, and then another girl.
Yeah, Trask seems to’ve all of a sudden popped up a bit …
Well, as I say, Israel came out with his family of Israel, Enoch, [?] and Mary, and then he died, as I say, so that when Joseph was born he was another male, so from those three all the Trasks in New Zealand have all descended.
Now talking about Trasks, was there a Trask in the New Zealand rowing team?
Yes – Charlie’s son, Paul [Keith].
Good, and is he a local boy?
No, no, he’s up in Auckland.
There’s a lot of news of people that’ve lived in Hawke’s Bay for a long, long time that we don’t hear about, and it just amazes me how much knowledge comes out; and it’s just ongoing the whole time with the number of interviews that we do, and so interesting for people to look up. So, you know, I’ve got to thank you very much for your talk.
Fantastic, and it was very nice meeting you as well. So, ending up our very, very interesting talk from Peter Trask. Thank you, Peter.
Original digital file
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Interviewer: Jim Newbigin