Unsworth, Dawn Dorothea Interview

It is 25th August 2020. I’m interviewing Dawn Unsworth this morning. Good morning, Dawn, and thanks for sharing your stories with us; and if you could start by telling us a little bit about your parents and how they came to be in Hawke’s Bay?

Right. Well, my mother was Hazel Robinson, and she was born in Greenmeadows; probably in the actual house in those days – I don’t know that they had much about maternity homes. She was born in 1906, and she was the second to youngest of five and bought up with a sort of semi little family. Her father worked, I think, as a farmer and things of that kind, you know, they were all just settling in. And anyhow, she met my father in probably her early twenties and they were married in 1928. My dad was the son of a goldmining exec … you know, he was on the executive, and spent time at Reefton; was dux of Reefton School for what it may be. Perhaps there were only about ten [students] … don’t know … and then up in Coromandel and Auckland, and eventually grew up and had a job with the Government and was very clever with electricity. He was part of the … he’d be only young … of electricity going into the Reefton mines.

And what was his name?

Ted … Edward; Edward Arnold Garfield Collier. [Chuckles] Big name, isn’t it? Anyhow, he met Mum – he was working here in Napier and met my mother and they were married, and I was born a year later. And I was baptised at … I don’t think the Cathedral … I think it might’ve been St Augustine’s. Mum and Dad were married at the Cathedral … the original Cathedral before it came down in the ‘quake, but of course I’m before the ‘quake. Anyhow, Dad and Mum not long after I was born were transferred to Wellington to work, as you got, in those days.

And he was in the ..?

In the government; Social Services, but I can’t tell you the exact title. It was to do with pensions and things like that.

And in Napier he was doing ..?

And in Napier, yeah. And I suppose he got advancement to go to Wellington. And we spent a few years there and my sister Jill was born. We lived in Lower Hutt, and I went to Hutt Central School and Eastern Hutt School because we were out at Melling. And of course our old house is not there any more because they widened it into a real highway, you see. We used to go across the swing bridge – there used to be a swing bridge across – and the river used to flood, and the water wasn’t far beneath you sometimes. [Chuckle] However, there’s a solid bridge there now.

And my dad got unwell, and sick, and was put into hospital. They thought he had TB [tuberculosis] which was pretty rife in those days, but at the end of his life he was told no, it wasn’t TB, it was something else; so they didn’t ever know. And so eventually … in those days there weren’t the sickness benefits there are today, so Mum, with two little girls, sort of sold up their furniture and lived in friends’ rooms and things like that. But eventually he came out of hospital and the government gave him a job back here in Hawke’s Bay, and so we transferred back here to Hawke’s Bay.

So by this time I’m seven … eight, and my sister’s six, thereabout[s], and so we went to Nelson Park School. We lived in Kennedy Road so we weren’t far away, and we just loved it; we made all our friends, and so I went on through Nelson Park. Had a lovely time in Nelson Park School. We had a couple of really nice men teachers – a Mr Bartle who loved music, and so did I. We had a grand piano, and could play the grand piano and all of that. And we used to learn – I suppose they’d think they were [a] bit … sissy songs now, silly things of Schubert and [chuckle] all of that sort of thing, like ‘Hark, Hark, the Lark’ for class teaching, you know. It was really funny, but I loved it of course. And then Mr Farham, who also liked music, but also loved art and I loved art too. [Chuckle] So then we went to Intermediate. I have still … well, I haven’t any friends left alive of Intermediate, but I made some good friends at Intermediate School and enjoyed that. Again we had a nice singing teacher, a Miss McLaren, who taught the school two part harmonies; oh, that was real lovely! We did sing some lovely things. And then I went on to Napier Girls’ High School and enjoyed that. At the end of the Fourth Form, girls didn’t … you know, unless you had a lot of money, you didn’t have a lot past that; you were then to go to work at about fifteen or sixteen.

So I went to work at Wilson Beuth & Wilson, which was [a] well-known accountants, as a clerk there. But I always had an eye for something a little bit different; figures really didn’t interest me a lot. So I got a job with AB Hurst Photographers, which I loved, as a finishing person and the receptionist there. And I worked there, made [met] a lovely gang of girls there and had a lovely time. And then there was somebody I knew in the Education Board and they wanted a receptionist, and I thought, ‘Well that’d be nice.’ Or a clerk really; and so I worked at the Education Board eventually.

All through this time I had a lovely time with a group of young people that were called the Junior National Party in those days. But, yeah – we were interested in politics; my husband and I – although he wasn’t my husband then, I just knew him – and probably Peter Cox was, Bunny Unsworth – that was my husband – and myself, we went into debating, and so we toured the country and we won the Westminster Cup debating for the Junior National Party. So it came to Napier, so … very good we were. Was it a cup or a shield? Think it might’ve been a shield.

And who was Prime Minister then?

Mr Holyoake; and Mr Holland … we had a few years there. As well as that we had a lovely social time with that Junior National Party, and we decided we’d do a show. Some of the young men were very talented, so they put together this show which we abridged … “Oklahoma”. Now “Oklahoma” was just hitting the big boards, and so we were very lucky to get away without the copyright, because in actual fact we did about five or six of the songs and costumed them, and briefly hung them together with the story of “Oklahoma”. These were clever, these guys. And we performed it. I suppose we had about an hour performance, it was, and we performed it first in St Augustine’s little old hall. Well it was such a success that we were asked to do it again the next year in the Municipal, [Theatre] and Hastings. [Chuckle] So we did it in the Municipal Theatre and you know just hung it together. One of the guys was clever and painted a big backcloth for it, and we hung things around …

So what year was that around about?

Oh, that would be 1950, ‘51. At that time, coming to light was the lovely baritone, Robert Houston. Now Bob was being persuaded by his father and family and lots of others to go to England, so some of the proceeds from our second lot of concerts went to Bob’s airfare or keep, because it wasn’t cheap. And he went off to England and was there for … oh, I don’t know … two years; was well taught and could’ve gone into professional theatre – not as a lead at that time, ‘cause you know, he was green as grass really. But he … he got homesick, and so he came home. And he’d met a nice young lady over there whom he eventually married; but that all sideline. But Bob and I then sang together for many years; all our lives until he died really. We became good friends; our families were friends, ‘cause we were all sort of in the musical world.

And what type of voice would you, did you have in those days?

I had a soprano, which when we went to Auckland … I’m just telling you … I lived in Titirangi. And I sang at the Scouts concert or something – I mean, I always had a nice natural voice, and I loved piano so I knew what music was, you know. I played the piano quite a lot, so I knew what music was. And a man came up to me after that, and he said to me, “You know, you’ve got lovely talent there; who are you learning from?” And I said, “Well, not anybody”, thinking, ‘I’ve just been and seen Sister Mary Leo, because she was ‘in’ then, [in] those days; and she said she hadn’t got room for me yet, but she would put me on her books and ring me, you know. So he said, “Well I’m just back from Guildhall in London, and I’ve just trained as a speech dramatist, and singing … voice dramatist.” And he said, “You know, I’d like to teach you.” So he lived not far from me, so I took him on. And it was great; there was a lot of … I would mind the children some nights while they went out for a lesson [chuckle] … lot of bartering going on. But I did pay him too, and he was very good and he developed my voice so that it had big carry, and all that kind of thing.

And so then I got pregnant [chuckle] with Tony; and Sister Mary Leo rang and said she had room for me. Well she rang my husband, because we couldn’t afford a telephone.

What was Bunny doing in those days?

Working for the Customs [Department]. Oh yes, we were transferred; he was in Customs and of course that was right down on the wharf. He used to have to catch the seven o’clock bus into work every morning from Titirangi. Mind you, you wouldn’t think twice about it nowadays, would you?

So Sister Mary Leo rang when you were pregnant?

Yes, and I said, “Well, I can’t really come anyhow now, because I’m pregnant and I can’t afford to do it really.” I’d have to make two bus trips to get in to her; I’d have to get to Auckland and then back up to Ponsonby. Anyhow, I used to talk to her at different things we were at; we did competitions and things like that that I did, and she was there. I used to talk to her now and again and I’d tell her what I was doing. And eventually I got recognised in some strange way, and asked to audition for the Choral Society, for “The Creation”, as a soloist. Ha!

Wow!

So I did that, and they said, “Yes, yes, come and do “The Creation” with the Auckland Choral Society”, which included the big orchestra, you know, so it was all quite staggering to me. But I had a lot of people that [who] wanted to help. I had a very good pianist lady who’d be a répétiteur for me, and you know, just do it out of the goodness of her heart, and things like that; people [to] look after the children, and so all that was lovely. So I went into quite a lot of classical oratorio at that stage; I eventually sang “Messiah” and various things with the Auckland Symphonia; wasn’t called Symphonia then, or was it? Is it Symphonia still, the Auckland Symphonia? Anyhow …

Philharmonic, I think …

And I did solo; Bach, I sang quite a bit of Bach. Then as well as that I was doing a bit of Gilbert & Sullivan. [Chuckle] So I loved that too, I loved the acting. And then we got the chance to come back to Napier. Bunny’s job … he got offered a job that was still with Customs but was up the ladder. Of course our family were all still back here and his mother was still alive, so we decided we’d come. But in the meantime his mum died by the time … We’d accept that, so we came back to Napier. So we had just on eleven years in Auckland, which was wonderful – I loved it. I was a bit homesick to start with but eventually I got where it was great, you know.

So you came back in about 19 ..?

‘64. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a bit of a thing to achieve here, back in Napier because it was different. And the Operatic Society was doing things, but my mum and dad – I haven’t really told you that they were so heavily involved in it – Dad was president, and my mother was head of wardrobe, and they both became life members and put many, many years into the Operatic Society.

So that’s where you got your talent from?

I suppose, yeah, but you know, it sort of … yeah. So while I was in Auckland I belonged to the little group called the Titirangi Light Opera Club, which was very, I suppose … tame, but inventive. And we decided we’d do “Amahl and the Night Visitors”. Now I don’t know that you ever know “Amahl and the Night Visitors”; it’s a little opera … Menotti opera … it’s a Christmas opera about the Three Kings come to visit this humble family and the little boy’s a cripple; and there’s a miracle in it, and it’s very lovely, it’s very gorgeous – it takes about three quarters of an hour. Well my young brother, John, who’s twelve years younger than I was, had come to Auckland to … I don’t know whether to see it, but he’d come and stayed with us when I was doing it. I was doing the part of the mother, with this child of about eight with this beautiful boy soprano voice. And it has a court; it has three kings – the Three Kings and a page – and I was doing it up in Auckland and I did it three different years with a boy called Mark Pedrotti, who went on to become a very well-known baritone around the world, and sang and lived in Canada, I think. I met him when he was grown up a few years ago; but that’s all by the by. And so when I came back here the Operatic Society was in the doldrums. It was the time of no wool being sold; and so the Operatic Society was just a hall then, not the lovely theatre it is now, and the committee saw you could rent it out to the wool, so they filled it with wool. So John said, “We can get rid of some of that wool, it’s going; could you come and do “Amahl and the Night Visitors”?” So I said, “Oh well, yes”; ‘cause I hadn’t come back into Napier Operatic, I’d gone to the Hastings clubs because I thought it was a bit … incentuous [incestuous] here. [Chuckle] It was a bit family, you know. So I did “Pirates of Penzance” for what was then the Hastings Light Opera Club, and then I did “Show Boat” for the Hastings Opera Company as it used to be. And that got burnt down, which you may or may not know.

Where was it, the Hastings Opera Company?

Well, the Light Opera Club I think just worked in a church hall, but the Operatic Society there had a whole building down this end …

Mayfair?

I just can’t remember what street it was in, but it got burnt down which was devastating for them.

So now we’re in the late sixties when it got burnt down, the Hastings Operatic?

Yes, yes. Yes, it was well after I did “Show Boat”, but I remember it got burnt down. [Of] ‘course I came back to Napier, see, and did “Amahl and the Night Visitors” and that was it. The next year was “The Sound of Music” you see, and the wool went out; and so we rehearsed in our own hall and of course “Sound of Music” went on in the Municipal, and packed audiences; we would have people sitting in the orchestra well, and sitting on the sides, and …

And of course you played ..?

I did Maria. Yep. And it was lovely, and that was the beginning of the Napier Operatic Society’s career for me … for me, here.

As well as that I was doing a lot; I would sing “The Messiah” with the Choral Society here … the Civic Choir or whatever it’s called, and something else. And Bob and I had been doing little entertaining things at this farewell, and that thing, you know? So we did little bits of things, and “The Sound of Music” took up half of the year. And then the next year the Society decided we’d do “Camelot”, I think. “Camelot”, that brought Bob Houston in … I mean he’d been singing for the Society for some time while I was away, but that brought us back together again. So we did “Camelot”, and we did “South Pacific”, and … what else did we do? Well, I did “Pink Champagne”, but there wasn’t a role there for Bob. “Pink Champagne” I’d done in Auckland; I’d done the first run of that in His Majesty’s Theatre in Queen Street in those days. But that was interesting, because in the middle of “Pink Champagne” – it’s “Die Fledermaus”, you know, it’s just a British version of “Die Fledermaus” really – there’s a big ball scene where they have entertainers. And usually you have some special name that comes and entertains in the middle of the ball. We had Rowena Jackson dance … yeah. I don’t know whether she’s still alive, but we had Rowena Jackson dance in that, which was stunning; she was a stunning dancer. She used to come and put my makeup on every night. [Chuckles] That was something, wasn’t it? So we did it again because I knew it, and there were good write-ups and it’s [a] lovely show … lovely show, “Die Fledermaus”; but this version brought in a lot more of Johann Strauss’ music, a lot of his waltzes and things. See, “Die Fledermaus” doesn’t have a lot of them.

Anyhow, that was my life with doing shows, really. My children and my husband fitted in. My husband came into several of the shows with me; he did the drunken jailer in “Pink Champagne”, and he was very good. And he did various things; he did one of the parts in “Oliver”, too. Mind you, I didn’t do “Oliver”, ‘cause my dog was having pups [chuckle] right in the middle of the season really.

And you would’ve wanted to’ve been Nancy, no doubt?

No, I was not a Nancy, really. And by that time I was too mature to be Nancy really, although not I suppose, that much; but I wasn’t really a Nancy. You know, you have to fit yourself to the kind of characters you are.

So then I think we’re getting up to well into the seventies, and we started Music Hall; and so we did those Music Halls year after year with different directors, Gillian instigated it.

Gillian Davies?

Yes, yes she did, and she was excellent, she knew all about it, and Paul Waring of course, was the chairman, and he was outstanding as that … never to be replaced really. Anyhow, we did that at Christmastime, and other shows some time earlier in the year. I can’t think whether I did much in the middle of the year. Oh yes, we did these Gilbert & Sullivan things; I directed “Mikado” and “Pirates of Penzance” … no, I think James directed; I think I was Musical Director or something for that.

And so you performed in the Napier Municipal, but you rehearsed at the Tabard as it is now?

Yes. But once we started using the Tabard it was properly fitted up with a proper theatre, you know; it’s a proper little theatre, so we did the small shows there, like the Gilbert & Sullivan shows, we did down there. I don’t remember doing any in the Municipal. I know – I also became interested in Song and Opera Workshop. Now a very good woman came down here, Beatrice Webster, and she ran some weekend voice coaching classes. Well I was always interested in that because I’d also started teaching myself, and so I would go to those – ‘cause I’m a bit more mature now, I’m into my forties – and I would go along to those. And she eventually formed the proper Song and Opera Workshop, and it was made up of about eight really good singers; we were all good singers. And so we did the first show in the Century Theatre, yeah, in the gallery, you know? So we mostly stayed there, although we eventually came and did things in Tabard Theatre as well, along with the Operatic Society. and I directed most of that. Beatrice would sort of come down once a month or something and sort it all out, and run classes. And we did quite a lot of entertaining – we did things in little halls and big halls – this is the Song and Opera Workshop. And it ran for about … it’s only just gone into retirement, because there was nobody forthcoming wanting to do that kind of music; we did more semi-classical music. So the whole genre of theatre has changed a little bit, which you may or may not realise.

And tell me, with your teaching, were you teaching opera?

I taught right from ballads and light music and theatre music; I taught quite a lot of theatre music. I didn’t teach what you’d call real … oh, I was going to say pop music, the pops of the day … I didn’t teach anything like Beatles or anything like that, although there are some songs that were rather nice, that different voices had and liked doing.

Was it at schools, or privately?

I taught it privately at home, I had a big room in my other house. So I taught it privately at home. I got asked early on would I teach somebody, and then it just grew and grew and grew, you know, as it does. And so the Song and Opera Workshop became quite strong and we decided we would form the New Zealand Singing School. So the Song and Opera Workshop are behind the New Zealand Singing School, which still goes on and is into really a big way now, it brings tutors from all over the world. We ran it at the beginning out at EIT, [Eastern Institute of Technology] and the students came and slept overnight, and we had [to] put up mattresses and things, [chuckle] in the early days; it’s now become much more sophisticated, you know. And I still go along to all the bits and pieces I can go to.

Does Tony Backhouse do any of the …

I don’t know Tony Backhouse.

Oh, okay … he comes to Napier and does singing – a capella I think, more.

Yeah, a capella. That’s with Jo Christiansen.

And would you accompany your students on the piano?

Yes, I’m not a great pianist in accompanying, sight reading, but good enough, and then when they wanted to do something outside they would always have a better pianist. We always get a good pianist then, you know, when they were singing out. And you know, I prepared them for exams and competitions and all that kind of thing and for singing; a lot went into the theatre with me as well. And the choirs – there’s two or three girls that – grown women, older women now – sing in the Cathedral Church Choir that I taught [chuckle] when they were young women. But you know, I haven’t taught for some years now.

And either of your children interested in the arts at all?

Well Sue sang – my daughter, Susan – she sang in the “Sound of Music” with me – she was just a little girl – and also in “Oliver”. She probably would’ve but she went to Australia into an area and never continued. You know, she had children and that; it [there] wasn’t anything down there where she was, she’s way out in South Gippsland, and so she doesn’t. Tony, my son, always said he never would. We always laugh at him; he became a schoolteacher, but he’d only just recently retired, and I said, “You can sing all right Tony – why did you never come and sing in any of the shows?” And he said, “Well if you want to know the truth”, he said, “I was at school and we did a school show”, and he said, “and I missed my entry and I got such a fright, I thought, ‘I’m never going to go on stage’.” [Chuckle] So that came out … [chuckle]

Years later?

[Chuckle] … out of the blue. But he’s always helped backstage when he’s been able. And he’s married to a singer performer, [chuckle] to Kerry, who does a lot of singing. And I taught her, and she was the lead in “Grease”.

Oh, wow!

All those years … well, the first lead in “Grease”, and she’s now about to turn fifty-eight; yeah, fifty-eight, I think. So when she was eighteen all those years ago – forty years ago – she was the lead in “Grease”; Sandy, isn’t it? And so that’s as far as that went; they never carried on. But I have this grandson who is busy teaching himself – he plays the piano, he’s got a keyboard, and he does modern music with a style … a little after the style of lots of pianists, but you know, the Elton John sort-of style; that sort-of style.

Seventies type of stuff …

Yeah. And he’s now teaching himself the saxophone. [Chuckle]

Oh, great!

So he’s in the Air Force, and he’s bought himself a big keyboard, you know, so he’s set up. But he’s only young; he’s only in his middle twenties. But that’s the only claim I’ve got to musical.

Well, I wouldn’t say ‘only’, Dawn.

Oh no. Sasha, my granddaughter … his sister … she went to ballet and did a lot of ballet. But she’s been in a couple of shows, but as child part[s] really. No, so we have to wait for another generation or two, maybe. [Chuckle]

And so when did you retire from teaching?

Well really about 2000, because Bunny got very sick; he got emphysema, and we shifted here. We had this house built for us in ‘96, because we lived in a nice house but it was all wooden, and it constantly wanted maintaining, and you know, things needed keeping up; and it had lawns and all of that. And I said, “Well let’s shift to something that’s easy care”, which this house certainly is, “and appropriate for you.” So we did that in ‘96. Well in 2000 he died, and in 2001 I had a massive heart problem; I had a quadruple bypass.

Wow!

Well, that sort of put paid to teaching really; I think I taught one or two little ones after that, but I just felt I hadn’t got the energy for it, you know? So I just gradually whittled them off. And once we shifted here we lost the big room. I did teach down in the spare room down there; but it’s not big, and I just cut it back gradually ‘cause Bunny just needed my time really, you know … just life became harder. So I thought I’d done my bit, and see, there were teachers coming on. Judith Howlett was doing quite a bit of teaching, and Tessa, and so they were filling the gap. So that’s when I gave up. I’ve just maintained an interest always in it, and you know, loved all the shows and everything. And you know, I’m a life member of [the] Operatic Society, and I was life member of the Song and Opera Workshop; and I’ve got a Citizen’s Award for various things I did. And I just live [a] nice gentle life now. [Chuckle]

So tell me, what’s the highlight of the last sort of ten years that you’ve seen a show in Napier that’s really stuck with you?

Ooh … I have to say I love “Phantom of the Opera”. I do love “Phantom of the Opera”. I mean, “Les Mis” [Les Misérables] is good too; I like “Les Mis”, but I think my favourite’s “The Phantom of the Opera”. [Chuckle] I think it’s because it’s a bit more lyrical; a bit more singing in it … I don’t know. They’re both great. And what else do I like? I love grand opera, but although there’s this opera … what’s it called itself?

Toitoi?

No, not Toitoi. Is it the Festival Opera? No – Festival Opera was the one that was on before. The one that the … what’s his name? The Spanish bloke, [Jose Aparicio?] is doing, and they do quite well. It’s very hard to run grand opera anywhere; it’s the most expensive entertainment in the world, and to do it justice you really need all that money. You do it the little, you know, easy way … dress modern and all that … you lose a lot of it.

So what’s your favourite opera?

My favourite opera, goodness me. Perhaps “Traviata”. [La Traviata] Again, ‘cause I love all the music. I liked Tosca … I like them all. I love opera; I love grand opera, “La Boheme” … you know, I love them all really.

It sounds like you had a very rounded and a very full life?

I’ve had a lovely time with music really. I’ve had a great time with it really, because I did all the facets, perhaps all of them just on the edge, you know. But I achieved a lot of things that satisfied me. And along with that of course I did other things – I did a bit of floral art when Gillian was talking about … When I lived in Titirangi there was a lady lived there that was a florist and she decided she would do classes for the young wives … the Anglican young wives. Well, we all went along; we had a lovely time doing all this kind of thing, but you see I always had loved it because I had a great aunt who was a florist. And I probably just got a little bit from her – I always loved what she did. Anyhow, we did all this; and this woman decided she’d take me on and teach me a bit more about floristry; about the real thing about making bouquets, and all of that kind of thing. And so I used to go along as her helper a lot, and we always you know … I don’t know that places are so busy about floral art, but it became a real flavour a few years ago, and everybody wanted to do floral art and learn about what you did. Now you just dump them in and that’s rather acceptable; they don’t want them all …

Shaped, and …

No, no. Everybody just wants them dumped in now, more or less. So I did that. I ran a couple of classes here in Napier when I first came back, until the singing lessons and things got too big. And I’ve always loved it; and I love gardening. Find it hard now ‘cause I’ve got so old; getting somebody in. [Chuckle] I do love gardening and gardens. What else do I like? Just nice things; nice people. [Chuckle]

Well, it sounds like you’ve had a very, very full life, and thank you very much for sharing that with us.

Oh, I was a bit croaky, I think.

No, no – it was lovely. Thank you.