White, Helen (Tiny) Interview

I’m Jim Newbigin. The 11th August, 2015. On behalf of the Knowledge Bank – Helen Tiny White, but known as Tiny.

If you’re sort of familiar with that area where Haddington is on the hill – but the little house at the bottom of the hill before you go along the street is where Granny and Grandfather McNiven lived when they came out here. And they used to sit there, and he was as Scotch as they come. And he used to sit there with his tam o’ shanter on and Granny would sit there, and … Freda White helped them in the house and with the horses. They had to have beautiful horses and stables. Anyway Freda White, who’s no relation, she came from Feilding … as rough as bags, you probably remember her. She – you know, she had a vocabulary of language pretty long, and anyway she came and helped there in the house. She was the most brilliant needle person you could get for needlework and cooking and doing flowers. Just natural. Just natural, she had two sides to her, totally, and she was with Granny for a long, long time and looked after her there and did all the horses and did all the flowers and the cooking and everything in this lovely little house they had then which is still there and I think there’s an English couple living in it now. I think they rent it out or something.

I said to Barb the other day … she wasn’t very pleased with me … I said “Barb,” I said “crikey!” I said “you’ve got to do something with that picket fence outside Granny’s house”. And she said “Nothing to do with us – those people in the house can do it”. And I said “Come on, you Scotch old devil. I said “you’ve got a bit of money floating around – why don’t you do it?”. And she got so cross, and she said “I can’t afford to do it … I can’t afford …” You know what Barb’s like – well you don’t – probably don’t know Barb as well as I do, because I see quite a bit of her. So anyway, you know – that’s how sort of life goes.

And – there’s Haddington, this beautiful home that Uncle Cam built on the hill. And I can remember riding over the hill with grandfather and they had all the piles just – about that high – put in for the house before they came down from Gisborne, to build it, and we used to ride over here – used to ride over there every single day with grandfather Mac, and Freda came sometimes too with us. Exactly where Haddingtons is built now and Barb said “oh, well you couldn’t have done because …” but I said “well, I’m sorry but …” I said “I am a few years older than you.”

And I can see it right now. They were just lovely, lovely people. I’ve got it all sort of written out in here and then how we all sort of went from one place to the other, and when I started school.

Oh, and when I first went to school I can remember – you know where Rudolf Steiner is now? It used to be Queenswood. Now who of your family have had anything to do with that – anyone?

Elizabeth and Virginia.

Did they? Did they? Well, I can remember going to boarding school because we were at Argyll School at the time riding down there which was 6 or 8 miles or something from Te Onepu to Argyll. We rode there every day with our little saddle bags and I took marmalade sandwiches every single day to school. First thing we had to do in the mornings was go and feed the ponies in the stables. We had lovely stables. Fed the ponies before we were allowed breakfast and we’d go up and have our breakfast, and we’d cut our sandwiches. Mum made us cut our own marmalade sandwiches or whatever. I took marmalade sandwiches every single day to school. So then I’d get a paper bag out of the cupboard somewhere in the house, take it down to the stables, fill it up with chaff and put that in my saddle bag for the pony to have for lunch ha ha. So we had lunch together in the paddock. I can see it happening now.

‘Course it was all scrub down that road and it was all limestone road I can remember. And you know, it took us quite a while to get to school but by God it never took long to get home, and there was the McDonald family living down there and they hated riding. It was the only way they could get to school and we frightened the hell out of them in all this scrub and stuff, and they used to say to us “oh, you Groome kids are just the pits” you know ha ha ha. I tell you what we were quite a, sort of a happy family that just enjoyed life really.

But I used to love going out with Dad every day, you know, if he got the old draught horse out and I said I’ll go and help you get it saddled up and put the collar and things – I could get the collar on to the top – it was always upside down ha ha. And all those sorts of funny little things that come into your mind.

But wherever Dad went on the farm I had to go too, with the sledge and the draught horse, or otherwise I would sit on the pummel in front of Mum on the horse and we’d ride round the sheep and do all that. They did everything in those days themselves – their own fencing and everything. Then the Maoris from Te Aute would come up and do all the shearing and we’d have lovely parties up there. And then Dad would have all the Maoris, the last night after shearing, up on the lawn and they’d get the old squeeze boxes out and they’d sing and have a beer or two. They just danced all night. They were great days. They were.

They were good days.

God, they were good days. People don’t know how to live now. It’s all so different.   And watching all the old – the wool bales you know, being stacked on to this big lorry. Well – it would have been Louise’s grandfather wouldn’t it?

Yes, it would be.

Dave Walker?

Yep.

And he did all the … I’ve got photographs in the photo albums out there of him doing all … I’ve got lots of photographs of all that still. Well I don’t know, life just went on and then everybody sort of …

And then I went to Queenswood in 1936 I think it was. Janet was still there and she went to Woodford the next year and I stayed on at Queenswood and then I went to Woodford – I went to Woodford in 1936 I think, that was the year I went to Woodford, and I left in 1942. I had 7 years there. But you know – what did it cost? About £60 or something a term was it? Something like that.

Yep. Was.

But no, I loved my school days once I settled into it, but when I first went to Woodford I was there for three nights and I ran away the first night. I don’t know where I was going, but somebody found me and said “Where are you going?” and I said “I’m off home”. Ha ha ha. And they said “Do you know how to get there?” and I said “I’ll find my way”. And of course I went back to school and I was so homesick. God I hated it, and then everything turned round and those days were just brilliant. And you know, you think about all the wonderful friends you meet and you know, you make at school and all that sort of thing. And you know, I’ve got friends all round the world still, that I sort of knew at school. Not many of them though, mind you.

No – not now.

No. There were a lot of South Island girls at school when I was at school too which was really fun. All the Woodhouses and different ones down there. Oh, no – I really enjoyed school once I got going because I was mad on sport you see. Sport was my big thing. And I was lucky enough to be in all the teams at school, the tennis, swimming, everything that was going on. So that was a bonus to me, but the scholastic side was a bit of a burden but never mind, you got through all that and I used to love singing and playing the organ. I played the organ at school. And of course when you’ve got the pipe organ at school it was so exciting learning to play this pipe organ, and so I played the organ every day – or all the time really. In the choir and – oh no, I just loved … I loved everything that was sort of all go in sport. Anything to do with sport was in my line.

And you carried that on later on in life didn’t you?

My sport? Well I did, with the equestrian world. The equestrian world really led me to many, many places. Well, I was lucky enough to get asked to go to judge over in Australia, and then I was asked to go to judge in England. So that led me really along way away. ‘Cause I did a lot of judging over there in Germany and a few places on the Continent and Australia and England. It just broke the barrier really. I was asked to go here and there and different places which was just marvellous really. I just loved it and I remember the time when I was asked to go and judge at Windsor and I thought ‘God – this is too exciting for words’. Just even seeing the castle without doing anything else. But it was all so beautifully done and people took me in and I stayed privately with people and met people, and it just went. And I obviously – it must have been easy for them ’cause I must have fitted in quite well, quite easily – so I always had somewhere to go and stay.

The English do everything so well.

England will always be England won’t it? There’s nothing truer than ‘Rule Britannia’ is it? And people who try to run it down say that ‘oh, the British flag’s this and the British are this’ but they just run everything so beautifully. They know how to run things properly, don’t they? Absolutely, it’s beautiful, it’s wonderful.

So all that sort of thing just led to my life really. Just travelling around the world and I’m so lucky to have meet all those people.

So when did you get into the riding part with dressage and the like? Before you were a judge?

Oh yes. Yes, I learned dressage before I was … oh, yes, long before. And we started dressage in New Zealand really from nothing. So we did that and it sort of grew and I took over, and I was head of the dressage judging and we just built up different places around the country where we had people looking after dressage and bringing them into the … they could organise different places around as well, and I just kept an eye on them. And it just blossomed. Blossomed. And of course we’d done terribly well overseas with dressage but it’s all different now. But we had lots of lovely friendly gatherings, and everybody got on well together.

So later on you were made patron of the Equestrian …

I was made patron of the Equestrian … Well then, I know I was told off the other day by somebody from Gisborne who said “you shouldn’t have resigned”. And I thought to myself when I was thinking about it, I thought ‘perhaps I ought to pass it on and let somebody else take over and have their fair share’, because they’d done work as well. But I gather I’ve done quite the wrong thing. They said once you have been made a patron you’re a patron. And I can see exactly what’s happened. But I just said to them “well, I’m still here anyway.” I was probably foolish but I didn’t realise it sort of worked that way. But I still take a huge interest in what’s going on.

And you went into the Hall of Fame?

Oh yes.

Is that the New Zealand Hall of Fame?

Yes, the New Zealand Hall of Fame. I went in the New Zealand Hall of Fame which I thought was just a hugest honour. There were three of us one night. We were at the Showgrounds I think, we had a big dinner there. And we actually didn’t know at the time exactly what was happening but there were four of us I think. Merran Hain was one. Merran and I and I think – might have been Peter Holden. And – ‘course the one that should still be there and I’m still fighting for it actually, is Adrian White. Now Adrian White was our very first rider that went overseas. Took himself over there with a horse from up in the Waikato – somebody – I forget her name off hand now – and she sent Adrian over there with his horse, no money in his pocket. Took it on board ship and away he went to Rome and he rode at Rome in the show jumping and finished somewhere, about 5th or something, which was absolutely brilliant on this horse. And you know he has never been recognised. I just think it is so sad, and I get on well with Adie and I see a lot of Adie and sometimes you bring it up and have a little chat about it, and he said “Tiny, I was terribly hurt about that” and he said “Peter Holden was put above me” and he said “he never did anything, and I was the very first one to leave this country and ride overseas for New Zealand”. And Peter Holden – Adrian’s very, very hurt about that. And I think it’s sad. I just think I don’t how we get him recognised here. He’s got to come back into it somehow. He’s so popular, Adrian – and I tell you what, he’s the most fabulous speaker. He can get up and speak about anything. He’s so funny, too. He’s just lovely. Lovely man.

That’s interesting. Now, tell me about – oh, and of course you’ve been honoured in the Queen’s Birthday as well.

Oh, I have indeed. I was just so over the moon. Yes I got an OBE, yes, and I was just so thrilled and I treasure it. So I’ll show you that on that little stand I have up there.

And about what year was that, can you remember?

It’s written on there. I think the date’s up there somewhere.

Your children … Neil, Virginia, Tinks.

Yes.

Now Tinks was ex Olympic, isn’t she?

Neil’s my only son, and he lives in Otane at Ludlow.

Is that your old family home?

Yes, I lived at Ludlow … oh no … my first family home was at Waireka, the other side of Otane up White Road, and then we sold all that land. We had a lot of land up on the racecourse which was the old Waipawa Racecourse. So we sold all that. When some land came up down at Ludlow which Eric bought and then we could add – and then when we sort of moved and sold that land up there we put more money into buying it, and we’ve got a big block down there now. Neil lives down there and his wife, and then Simon, his son, lives there and he runs it too. So it’s lovely to have – we’ve got a huge block of land. It sort of goes down from Drumpeel Road where the Ritchie family all live.

And Virginia?

And then Virginia. Yes. Well, she went to school. She’s my older daughter and she’s married to Angus McLeod who’s a farmer over at Feilding. They farm over there. They do a lot of grain and fatten lambs and all that sort of thing, and she’s got two children – Tom and Sarah. And she lost a son unfortunately.

And then there’s Tinks. Tinks is here at the moment, flying around with somebody this afternoon – oh, she’s gone down to see her daughter. She was always the tinkerbell of the family. I can just see her waddling out to the stables. She waddled like a dog – Tinkerbell. No, she’s great. She lives in the Wairarapa – married Andy Pottinger. And they farm out towards Tinui. They’ve got a farm out there, and they’re going to put that on the market. It’s too far out. Tink’s son Sam just couldn’t care a stuff about farming. He just doesn’t like it. But it’s no good forcing them, and he’s actually – he loves building so he’s a carpenter. He’s got all his – passed all his you know, exams and one thing and another. So he’s down with Sam and Amanda’s up here. They’ve just got the two.

Now, your late husband was a huntsman …

Eric.

… of note.

Well … no, he was Master. Not huntsman, he was Master. When George Ryall was out here, that Irishman, and he lived at the old Kennels on the main highway. You remember – coming out of Pakipaki. Yeah. That’s where they lived. The kennels were there for a long, long time and old George Ryall lived there. And we used to go down there and we’d – because during the war time, we had to ride to hunts and pick up the hounds and I always remember Eric and I going – we’d ride down there to the kennels and then we’d ride over all the Campbell country where John Campbell lived at Horonu, and we’d ride over there and ride up Maraekakaho, over the river somewhere and come out at Okawa and then we’d spend about 5 or 6 days at Jim Lowry’s … Jim and Edna, at Oreka. Yes, oh gosh, they were good fun days – God, we loved it all. Yes.

So Eric was Master for quite a number of years and then he got double vision jumping one day and I was watching him on this horse, and I said “What the hell are you trying to do with Playboy?” and he said “He won’t jump when I want him to”. So I said “You’d better get your eyes tested”. It was his eyes … he was having double vision. Oh God. So that was the end of story and finished the days for him. But, no, I loved my hunting. Just loved it. Had lovely horses.

And you had many hunts to go to in Hawke’s Bay if I remember rightly.

Oh – we had hunts everywhere. We were so well off for country, beautiful country. Beautiful, beautiful county, and we used to go up and stay at Springvale – the Holdens up Tiko – all those families, and Butlers and oh, God, we had lots of lovely fun. We certainly did. They were wonderful days and everybody sort of mixed in together. There were no fights or anything.

In those days how did you get your horses to the Hunt?

Oh, I’ll tell you what. The early days getting them to the Hunt was … what the hell was his name? Oh, Tom Brown, who lived somewhere down towards Queenswood somewhere. Tom Brown had a floating business of taking horses – of taking 4 or 5 horses on the float to a Hunt. And he lived in Hastings and we used to ride down from Te Onepu down to the main highway at Te Aute where the Te Onepu Road goes – there, and we’d meet Tom Brown there with the truck and he’d put the horses on the truck. Dad organised it all and said “right, two to pick up” or whatever number. We get on Tom Brown’s old float and away we’d go in this thing and it chugs through its gears. I can hear it now. And he’d take us to the Hunt for the day, bring us back home at night, drop us off at the corner and we’d go home and Dad said “now when you get to the top of the Te Onepu Hill start whistling and singing so that I know that you’re on your way home” which we always did.

Interesting. I’ve got a photo of some of the Hunts and I might just bring then round for you to … you probably could name some of the people that are there. And my father had a float as well that he put on the back of one of the brewery trucks. It was very early in the piece and then Powdrell arrived the next week.

Oh Powdrells. It was Powdrells wasn’t it? That’s right. Godfathers! Yes, I’d forgotten about that. Oh no, it’s just amazing isn’t it? I’ve got quite a lot of photos things out in these big scrap books I’ve got. I’ve got these big scrapbooks – I’ve got two of them here and the other two are under lock and key. But I have got them here and I’ll look through them one day.

Well, don’t make it too late.

I can get them out any time and bring them round to you. I’ll just have a look through a few of my notes and things, and bring them.

What about some of the more humorous stories that you might have?  [Laughter]  Would you like to tell those?

Oh, I don’t know – I’ve got some humorous ones. Oh, Lord yes. I don’t know … oh yes I have got some but, you know … but I just – you’ve got to sort of sit down and think about them really.

Right.

Yes – ‘course Jock and Eileen McKenzie, do you remember them? My God, they were playboys. Eileen and I had two very good hunters each and we used to go hunting at least 4 or 5 days a week. So that was fine because I would pick her up down the Tuki Road and away we’d go. Well if we didn’t have some fun, and we’d get out to these places out at Tiko. One of the funniest nights I always remember was when a great friend of mine was staying with me, Paddy Jordan, and anyhow he had one of our horses so I said to him “How did you get on with the horse today?” And I said “did you put him on the trailer”? He said “Oh yes, everything’s loaded up.” He said “we’re all ready to go home”. So I said “Righto, off we go”. We get home and of course the damned horses are still sitting in the stockyards at the Tiko pub. You know, he had no idea where they were. There’s many funny stories I can tell you. Probably won’t even hear them. [Laughter]

But you know – Jim it’s good that you sort of thought of doing this because if you don’t write it down … I’ll read some of these notes again tonight and get some other ones too that I can think of. But Eileen and I – we had a ball together.

I know you did. I’ve heard some of the stories from Dudley Chambers. [Laughter] He had a big night over the other side and whisky was short at the time, and he came in to see me and said – we were on rations – “how many bottles of good whisky can you give me”? And I had a look and I said “four bottles, Black and White”. He said “that’ll do. Now” he said “what about for my friends who are coming hunting?” and I said “Well, look I’ve got some Locks Irish whisky here”. He said “can I try it?”. Yep. We opened a bottle. I said “put some water in it”. No, no we don’t put water in our whisky.” And he took a big sip – this is about 10 o’clock in the morning. “God” he said “where’s the water tap? How much can I have”?

Oh God, Irish Whisky’s the pits. Oh, I can remember when I was staying with the Rowells in Ireland in Tipperary. Anyhow you know, we got to the Hunt all right, but it was getting home afterwards because you never finished up where you started during the day time. So the boys would look after me you see and they’d come and say “Tiny we know how to get you back Tipperary, back to the place where you’re staying” and I said “thank God somebody can take me home” so of course, they all got on the toot you see, on the way home, and they’d stop at all these little pubs and have a drink and they’d bring one out and we’d just sit on our horses and have the drink – and I don’t know what happened to the glass.

And so on we’d go you see, so then the last one we came to they came out with a packet of peppermints and they said “right, this is the last drink you’re having and these peppermints – you suck them and eat them all the way home till you get back to home, otherwise you won’t be there in the morning – they’ll kick you out because they’re so anti drink. So I ate these things going home.

So that was fine and dandy. I learnt all about that but you know they have no drink in the house and their dining room cum sitting room was all in this one great big long room like this, with a beautiful table – a lovely wooden table and chairs and things and a fireplace that they kept the logs going all the time. No loo, you went out in the garden to a long drop. And I remember coming to breakfast in the morning and we’d all sit there and all wait till everybody … we were told to be at breakfast at 7 or 8 whatever time it was and so everybody’d arrive and we’d just stand by our place and then somebody would say Grace then we’d all sit down and we’d have breakfast and then if anybody wants to leave the table … “if anybody wants to leave the table you may leave the table if you ask.” So we said “please may we leave the table”. It was all very, very Irish in so many ways. The Irish were tough bickies really, but I got on pretty well with dear old George Rowell and his family. They were very good to me. But no, I loved it over there. And we used to go to race meetings and they’d take me round about and show me different places. You know, someone was always told to look after me when we were hunting so I followed this man all the time hunting – it was very different to what we were used to out here.

But no, you know there are so many kind people around and I remember all these people, and I can vividly just see the whole place still in Ireland. And where we went hunting and different race meetings and that sort of thing, and we went to the Dublin Horse Show, and then somebody said “see this horse?” and I said “yes” and they said “well that’s your horse for the day and you can get on it now because your classes are coming up soon” and I said “what classes?”. So they made me ride in the Dublin Horse Show. You know, it was all good fun – everybody just boxed on. So you know, I made a lot of friends over there but I don’t know if I would know too many there now. I always kept track you know, and wrote to them and sent them cards and all that sort of thing but I don’t think any of them are around now – they’ve all sort of gone. I don’t know what happened to the Irish. I thought they had preserved themselves for life.

When was your first appearance at the Hawke’s Bay Show?

Oh, I can remember that so clearly. When I was about four I think, and I had a little tartan skirt, a green top – pullover – a pair of green tartan socks, a skirt to here – tartan – and a pair of sandals and a little green beret and that’s what I wore in the Hawke’s Bay Show.

Aged four.

Aged four. And that was my first introduction. And then I must have sort of got some jodhpurs given to me from somewhere, from somebody. Oh, and then of course the round the ring classes. That was in the days when Granny was alive and Freda White was working for them, and anyway this little horse called Tui that came from a family of Torbetts [spells] from Wairoa. They were great hunting people and that sort of thing, and anyway, had this lovely pony called Tui that they asked me to ride. And so I rode this pony round the Hawke’s Bay Showgrounds – I remember just round the ring jumping we had in those days. And anyway we had to do two rounds and this pony was quite a fast number. ‘Course I liked anything that moved along a bit. So we went round this oval twice and it came out and went down the middle and came out the gate, missed the gate, went straight over the rails, into the bird cage, out the other side and round the back of the stables. And anyway Freda White came round and found me round there blowing my eyes out and she said “Get back in the damn oval” she said “and stop your blubbing, nobody cries here”. And she said “you’ve won it” you see, and I said “I can’t.” And of course I cried and cried and cried and she said “I’m going to tell that judge to take the ribbon away from you because you won’t stop crying”. I can see it – Freda was, you know, they were tough – but that was the way to bring us up. You know, no ruining kids. But – oh no, we had great days. I loved it all.

Talking about Freda. Was Doggie White a brother?

Yes, he was a brother and they lived up in Taupo. He lived in Taupo, Dog, he was a great fisherman. Yes, and then Freda she got rough as … really rough when she was over in Feilding. Really bad. But you know, she meant well and you know – there’s all sorts of people in the world, to make the world tick round. But Doggie – I don’t know what Doggie – just passed on like most of us.

Yeah, Doggie was RAF I think, during the war.

You’re right. He was. He was in the Air Force. He was. Yes, old Dog. Oh, I think I’ve got a photo of him … oh, of course I’ve got a photo of him in the Air Force, yes. No, they were a good family. But you know, it’s sort of hard to find out about all the history and things. I was trying to find out some … Barb wanted to know a few things and she said “I don’t know anything about that” and she said “that doesn’t belong to the McNIven family.” And I thought ‘well it’s no good going on talking to you because’ … you know, she sort of – not the way – she doesn’t think the same way as we think I don’t think, and remembers all the past history and the fun days.

Do you think it’s worthwhile contacting her?

Who?

Barb?

No, no. I don’t think so, not really – I don’t think you’d get much more out from – no, she’s gone social now ha ha ha. Unless you want to go and get social. No I don’t really think so.

Uncle Cam was – he was a great uncle to me, I loved him. He was a lovely man.

He was.

I just loved them.  And he and … all of Mum and Aunty Mo and all of them … they all got on so well together – God, we had some fun. God, I used to love going out there. I can remember the party they had in that great big blue room. Ha ha – I was sad when that house burnt down. Do you remember it?

Yes, I do.

Yeah. And I can remember when – of course when David got on the toot there and went and got all the dregs and took the whole lot and put them in one glass and got himself totally inebriated. I’ll never forget that. And was it Doggie? No not Doggie White – it was Pat White, wasn’t it? Pat Barker – who had the aeroplane?

Yeah.

That was who had the aeroplane.

Pat and Dudley, my father. They had one.

Yes. I don’t remember Dudley so well but I remember Pat better.

We had a Gypsy Moth and used to tow it behind the brewery truck and keep it at the brewery … [Laughter]

Did you?

… and tow it out to the Aero Club.

Oh, God almighty!

‘Cause he had pilot licence No 31 in New Zealand. And Doggie White was about 30 I think.

Was he?

Yep.

Oh, really?

And they used to come to Hereworth during the war and drop flour bags on the … as we headed for the trenches for practise.

Oh, for God’s sake – oh, isn’t that divine? Yes. Oh the old Dog – God, he was a hard case wasn’t he? Oh, I loved all those – I’m lucky enough to be able to sort of still remember them, and different the things that go on with them all.

No, I really have had a marvellous life you know, when I think about it. And I hate telling people about it because I was so lucky to be in England staying at the Gate House going into Windsor Great Park when Windsor Castle went on fire. And I stayed with this lovely family there. I just couldn’t get over Windsor Great Park you know … you’ve been there. Look – it’s a place … if you ever get a chance go to Windsor Great Park and look at it. It’s a township of its own. It’s as big as Hastings. It’s got all it’s own schools, it’s got chapels. We used to go riding round the park and we’d go to chapel every morning – oh, at least on Sunday mornings we’d go to chapel, and the Queen would be there, the old Queen Mother – she’s gone now.

Jim, you know you get me on to this sort of thing, talking about England and all these sort of people and I don’t like skiting about royalty but I was just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. And I never mention it to people and I feel awful to … even saying it now. No, I was just lucky. And I stayed at the Lodge you see, which – you know, you never dream about. They took me to church and the old Queen Mum comes out and she said “your name’s Tiny” and I said “yes it is”. And she said “I’ve got the most beautiful steeplechase horse – New Zealand bred steeplechaser – at the moment”. And I said “yes” – I knew she had. And she just went on talking about it and talking and talking and then she said “you know’ she said “I’ll see you again before I go” she said “but I have to go back to my house, it’s getting … for my lunch time.” And she said “I’d like to take you back there sometime so that we can have a drink” she said. You know? I thought ‘for God’s sake!’ But she seems to know everybody in the world. That’s what made it so easy and she’s so easy to talk to. You know, you get some people who just won’t carry a conversation on, and make it very awkward but no, not her. Not her, and I think this Queen’s the same. This is a very good Queen that we’ve got. I like her. But – oh I don’t know, I just … England just to me is England. ‘Cause I’d live in England you see – if I got an opportunity. I’ve got to find a nice Lord to live over there with now. [Chuckle]

Somebody said “well God” – you know, “you trek around”, but anyway – you talk about all these funny things in life. But I’m just crazy mad about England. I love it.

Well, perhaps at a later date we’ll get a bit more information from you out of your files which are vast – plenty of them and we’ll get together at a later date and we might be able to add to it a little bit.

Yes. You know, just when you start talking about these sort of things you know, it’s … talk to somebody who understands and can ask the right sort of questions that brings it out, because I’ve got nobody to talk to that’s sort of been there – now – done it with me. So you sort of just have it written down in a file, and I just got this little girl Sandra to write a few sort of stories about it really. So that I sort of had some memory of it for the children. I think they are quite interested actually, and Neil seems to be very interested in what I’ve been doing, and Tinks is very much too. And I said to them “Look, you’ve just got to keep all your family history together. Make sure that all your children know each other and the grandchildren and talk about these things in front of each other. It might be boring but just to keep it ticking – if you can keep it ticking through the years. Once you’ve lost it it’s gone.”

Yeah, that’s right. Well, you know – I’ve had the opportunity to talk to our parents – my parents – and we didn’t bother about it at the time and …

No – that’s exactly what happens.

I’m very sorry about it.

Oh, it’s very sad really. Dad was very keen on family history and he loved all that sort of thing and anything he did – he appreciated what he did. You know – he got around the world a bit, he and Mum. And poor darling Mum – she hated sailing. The moment she stepped on a ship she was seasick until she got to the other end.

And then when I went in ’48 I remember taking 24 lambs – they were cut down the middle and they were all in halves – and took 24 of those over to Tilbury with me. Got off at Tilbury and I thought … ‘what do I do with these damn lambs now’? So anyhow I was met by Brian Armstrong’s relation in London and he took me and took all these lambs to this butcher because they were on rationing. We’d organised it you see, and he just couldn’t believe it when he saw these lambs and he said “God!” he said “New Zealand lamb!” So then of course I got myself in a bit of a tither, and I thought ‘God – how many should I give him?’ So anyhow I gave him about eight or something – eight sides – and he said “Who are those for? And what am I going to do with them?” I said “They’re for you”. Well, his eyes fell out of his head, you know. I was young and green and didn’t know, really, how much to do but anyway, it served the purpose very, very well and he was always very good to us after that. He did anything for us.

But then I lived in England for a long time in Shropshire. ‘Cause that’s where the family – the Groome family – came from – in Shropshire. So I know all that part and I did a lot of hunting and oh, I met all sorts of people up there and had a great time – lovely time. Boy, I wish I was young again and could do it all again.

You and I are going to have a whisky now.

Well, that was a lovely talk this afternoon and I’m happy to say thank you very much to you, Tiny.

Oh, not at all.

Helen Tiny White.