Williams, Peter Francis Interview

Today is the 15th January 2019. I’m interviewing Peter Francis Williams of Hastings on his family and the interests he had. Peter, would you like to tell us something about those?

I was born in Lower Hutt in 1932. I have an older sister and a younger brother and a younger sister, who are all still alive. My mother – her maiden name was Dudding – and she comes from a family who can trace their history back to about 1100 or 1200. Her family, the Dudding family, came mainly I think to Canterbury and then spread in various parts of New Zealand. Now I think that anyone with the name of Dudding is related in this country, ‘cause that’s how it all started off.

My father I know less about; my grandmother was dead by the time I came along, and my grandfather as well, so I don’t really know very much about them except that they lived in Wellington at the time; and I don’t really know very much more about them.

My older sister, Valda, who lives in Christchurch, she’s almost ninety, and still very active; still has her own business in fact. She has a letting agency in which she looks after about forty properties, and still walks up three flights of steps to her apartment in Christchurch, so she’s very active.

That’s probably why she’s ninety.

Yes, and she dresses like a teenager.

My younger brother is widowed; he lives in Paraparaumu. He’s a very keen golfer, although he is not as able as he used to be, but in fact was Wellington Junior Champion – that’s how good he was at the time, when he was a teenager.

My younger sister was a nurse; she’s now seventy-two years of age; unfortunately has pancreatic cancer and is not very well at all, and the outlook for her doesn’t look to be very good. But she was a sister in Napier Hospital; she was the Charge Nurse at the Prison; and she was the Charge Nurse at Summerset in the Vines in Havelock North from which she retired only about two years ago. But she’s been a very active … and still is, even though she’s a very sick lady.

My mother lived until she was ninety-six years of age, and came up from Lower Hutt, and lived here in Havelock North; died in the year 2000. My father died much younger, about 1972 I think, and he was a heavy smoker and paid the price for it with a fairly early death.

So we lived in Lower Hutt. As was the case in families in the Depression time, we weren’t very well blessed with the world’s goods but I think we had a fairly happy childhood; and when I think back now to what we did and how simple our lifestyle was, it was in many ways a good deal happier than it is in the world in which we now live where people seem to want everything and have everything.

It was less complicated.

It was less complicated. For instance, I can remember where we lived we would go down to the grocer’s shop and buy the groceries, and they were wrapped up in a parcel, tied up with string and we brought them home. And our lifestyle was quite simple, but I think we were very healthy and very happy.

We eventually moved to one of the new State houses, which was a very nice house indeed and we lived very happily in the Lower Hutt valley. I joined the Scouts, and when I was fourteen I went to the World Scout Jamboree in France in 1947.

What a thrill it must’ve been!

It was quite a thrill. When I look back I just really wonder how that ever happened; but it’s quite a long story, and it’s a story I’ve written about, and I’ve got a copy which I could give to you …

We can copy that; we can make reference to that.

… if you would like it.

Yes, we would like it.

So there’s a lot more detail in there. Interestingly enough, after I came to live in Hawke’s Bay there was a group of ex-Scouts here, and we used to hold annual dinners and so on; there was a lot of association. Now I was one of the youngest, so I’m one of the few people now left.

Looking back I just wonder how we managed to get there and how we managed to raise the money to get there. But there was [a] very supportive committee, and the County Commissioner was the late Jeff Vogel who lived in Vogel House in Lower Hutt, and so I’ve been into that house many times when I was a boy scout. Anyhow, the trip lasted five months and it was a wonderful experience.

Five months?!

Five months, we were away.

That’s incredible!

Well, we were … yeah, it’s amazing. And I’ve documented it all, and … anyhow, that was a wonderful experience. And over the years there have been all sorts of contacts made with the Scouts who were involved, but I’m one of the few who are now left, and I think I’m probably the only one in Hawke’s Bay of the group who went; and there were probably about a dozen or so went from Hawke’s Bay altogether. Yeah. So that was a very good experience for me.

I went to Hutt Valley High School; I left there after four years – I would’ve liked to’ve stayed a bit longer but it just wasn’t possible in those days. I then went to Wellington Teachers’ College for two years and then was [a] primary school teacher until about 1960 when I finished my degree and went to teach at Naenae College; there for just over three years and then came to Hawke’s Bay as Head of Music at Napier Boys’ High School, which I enjoyed. I immediately was involved in a whole range of activities to do with music. Perhaps when I arrived they were a bit short of leadership.

So anyhow, at Napier Boys’ High School as well as teaching there, I re-formed the Napier Eden Orchestra which I conducted there for nine years. I was appointed as the first Director of the Napier Civic Choir … position I held for twenty years; and I became Choirmaster at Trinity Methodist Church in Napier, and later was appointed organist. And I still play the organ every Sunday there. I was asked to be concert reviewer for the Daily Telegraph, and I’ve continued to do that now for more than fifty-one years; and now do it for Hawke’s Bay Today.

You’ve been immersed totally, haven’t you? Now at some stage, Peter, you met your wife – where did you meet her, and what was her background?

Well, my wife was the eldest of six children and she lived in Lower Hutt. She was very interested in music as well, and was a very good pianist … better pianist than I am or [will] ever be. And I actually met her through her mother; perhaps a long story, but when I was a paper boy. And I got my first bike when I was ten I suppose, or eleven; I remember it cost £4 in those days. But anyhow, I delivered papers all round Lower Hutt, and stayed there until I left school; and virtually became what’s known in those days as the Head Boy, which was just a job – you did the round of any boy who happened to be sick. So I knew much of the Hutt Valley for many years. After I left I went back and worked a little bit for Blundell Brothers as a part time driver on a Saturday morning. And in those days boys used to have to go round and collect the money for the papers on a Saturday morning, and then they came back to the central place where we were and the money was counted and paid in. One of the people who assisted there was my wife’s mother, Ellen Benge, and through her I met Valerie, and eventually we were married in Lower Hutt in 1960. And she was very into music, and so our lives were completely involved; we really did everything together musically, which was wonderful really. It got to the stage where sometimes I wouldn’t go to things that she was involved in – for instance, she belonged to a walking group and she wanted me to go, but I said, “Well, you need to go to something that I don’t go to”, because I actually went to some things that she was not involved in, because I was involved in the education.

So we were married in Lower Hutt, and we built a house there; and then in 1966 we moved to Hawke’s Bay. And we lived very happily here for nearly fifty years until her accident and then her eventual death. We were involved in all sorts of music activities, and she actually became the … she was a music teacher … she became the Secretary/Treasurer of the Hawke’s Bay Branch of the Institute of Registered Music Teachers, a position she held for twenty-five years. So she was totally involved in all of that work, and her legacy still exists of thing[s] that she founded and did. So as a reviewer for the newspaper, we attended countless concerts here in Hawke’s Bay, and we would often travel to other parts of the country. For instance, twice we went to Sydney for the International Piano Competitions, and we would go to Auckland for a series of concerts and all that sort of thing. And of course in the work that I did at the Community College, there was a lot of things which she also would’ve helped with – holiday courses and so on.

We had four children and they were all involved initially in music; only one of them has really continued it. My four children: the eldest one is Director of Music at Rangi Ruru, which is a private girls’ school in Christchurch; and she’s very committed musician … a very good violinist and pianist. I taught her as pianist – in fact I taught all four children – but my daughter carried on and I taught her until she went to university to study.

So what was her name?

She’s now Janet Kingsbury. The other three boys all learned the piano from me and all learned another instrument as well. And unfortunately they didn’t continue, but I mean, that’s what happens – they develop other interests.

My eldest son is in business as an automotive electrician in Williams’ Auto-Electrical in Napier; the second son lives in Havelock North – he was a builder, and now designs houses as a draughtsman; and the youngest son now lives in Auckland where he’s involved in the motor importing business.

There are six grandchildren, ranging in age at the present moment from twenty-six to ten; five boys and one girl. The eldest one is Jared who is twenty-six, and he’s getting married next month. The next one is Blake, who is just coming up to twenty-three and he’s just graduated as a civil engineer, and is now working in Auckland. The next one down in that family is Tain who is twenty-two, and he works for an engineering firm in Hastings. My daughter, Janet, and her husband, Peter, have just one son who is really a geologist, I suppose. He works for a firm that does all the computer modelling for various things; for instance, he’s been seconded to the work after the Kaikoura earthquake, the reconstruction of the roads there. That’s the sort of thing that he does, and he’s really found his niche in all sorts of activities which he does within this firm called Apley. My second son and his wife, Natasha, have two children; the oldest one, Max, is a very good cyclist; and he’s Year 12 at St John’s College now, and he has been overseas twice with Cycling New Zealand and is doing very well in that field. The only girl is Mischa, who is going into Year 6 at Havelock Primary School. She is very interested in dancing.

Well coming back to me, interestingly enough the primary school that I went to was exactly the same school that my future wife went to. And she was four years younger than me so we didn’t know each other at that time; and in my early years up to age seven I lived just round the corner from where she eventually lived in Lower Hutt, so there were some interesting coincidences there, in that time. So I attended Boulcott School in Lower Hutt. In those days they had duxes, and I was dux of the school in my Standard 6 year, then went on to Hutt Valley High School. I was there for four years, with five months away during the fourth form year when I travelled to the Jamboree in France, which was a very interesting experience. In those days we travelled by ship. It was just two years after the war, and when I think back, how on earth did they get thirty thousand Scouts together in France just two years after the war? And we lived in England under canvas for two months at Gilwell Park; how they managed to … well, rationing was very [?] in those days, so where we went we had to take with us food parcels. They reckoned the ‘Rangitata’ on which we sailed was laden down with all the food which we were taking with us, [chuckle] ‘cause we were told whenever we went to anywhere we had to take some food with us ‘cause there was such a shortage. So we had all these tins of tongues and good mussels, which was the staple sort of food in those days. So I was away for five months; it was a great experience. We sailed round the world – went via Panama and came home via Suez, and I travelled quite extensively in England; had [a] wonderful couple of weeks in the Lake District with distant relatives of my mother. And I was very fortunate, we kept contact with them, and then when one of the cousins died she left me a legacy which was very nice for me, and enabled me to buy the grand piano which I still have. So I think the time away – although we had school lessons [all] the time we were there ‘cause we had teachers travelling with us – it did perhaps affect my overall progress, although I still did okay – there was no doubt about that. So when I left school at the end of the sixth Form … in Year 12 as it is now … I went to Teachers’ College. In those days we got paid at Teachers’ College – think we were paid £160 a year, and with a bit of part time work I managed to get by on that quite well, even saved enough money to buy a piano at the end of the first year.

Peter, you’re trained specifically as a teacher, and then you would add on the music later?

No, I trained as a primary school teacher, that’s why I taught for the first years. But I was always interested in music, but I never had the opportunity to learn until a very kind friend started to teach me when I was in the sixth Form at high school. So I didn’t start learning until I was sixteen and then I continued to learn and had various teachers.

This was the piano?

Yeah. And so I finished up with some music exams, and diplomas from Trinity College and the Royal Schools of Music. And then when I was at Teachers’ College I started a part time university course which was not going to be music initially, but eventually was. So I eventually finished my degree just after I was married actually; I wasn’t married ‘til I was twenty-seven, so I was about twenty-nine when I finished my degree. And I was very fortunate to be granted a year’s full time study leave from teaching – they used to dish out tenure in those days, and I got one; and so I was very fortunate, so I was able to finish my degree. And then I moved to secondary teaching as Head of Music at Naenae College, before shifting in 1966 to Hawke’s Bay to be Head of Music at Napier Boys’ High School. And in 1975 [I] went as a music tutor at the newly formed Hawke’s Bay Community College, a position I held for fifteen years, and in [through] which I was involved in a whole host of activities throughout Napier, Hastings and Central Hawke’s Bay.

Most of your interests were with classical-type music?

Classical music, that’s right.

And you didn’t venture into shows or anything like that?

No, no. I formed and conducted the Hawke’s Bay Regional Orchestra, and then I continued my work with the Napier Civic Choir as well. So my whole life from that time on has involved music. I retired at the end of 1989 so I’ve been retired for twenty-nine years, but I’ve continued my interest in music all that time, mainly through my work with the newspaper and with the Institute of Registered Music Teachers. And up until three years ago I taught some piano pupils as well. And I’ve continued as the organist at Trinity Methodist Church where I play every Sunday.

[Break in recording]

Reflected in the grandchildren, who’ve also done well in their various chosen fields.

Did you play any sport at all?

Not really – we played tennis. We belonged to the Onekawa Tennis Club – we all played there. My wife was actually a very good tennis player. And one interesting thing [that] happened was, one of the houses we swapped with was a palatial place in Auckland, and when we swapped with them we thought, ‘Oh, goodness – I wonder how that family …’ I think they had three children … ‘how they all found our house’; which was a very nice house, although it was quite modest. But they loved it because where they lived it was a bit hilly – they couldn’t ride their bikes, so they rode our kids’ bikes; they played tennis, so they able to go to the tennis club and they joined the tennis club; so they had a very happy holiday. And that was repeated in [at] various other times when we went away as well, and our children I know enjoyed that.

Our house was in Keats Avenue, which was a parade of homes – 1959 – and they were very nice. So we lived in a Bill Burton house if you know … they were very modern houses – attached garage – most …

Was he American?

Canadian …

‘Cause they built differently; they put the floor down before they built the …

Did they? Yes.

It was quite fascinating.

Beautiful flooring in it; it was rimu flooring actually, I remember, and the beautiful doors it had in it and so on. But that was a very happy place in which to live, in that community.

And did the children play sports?

Yes, our daughter wasn’t so good – she played tennis; and the boys all played rugby and played it well, and they’re still interested in it now. Our eldest son, for instance, cycles; he and his wife do a lot of cycling. And two of their sons are very good squash players; and our youngest son’s a very good squash player and golfer as well, so – I mean they’ve all taken up various things – and our other son was a good hockey player.

Yes, I have a cyclist in our family …

Our grandson – he’s been twice – once to Canberra, once to Adelaide, and then he’s thinking he might be going to do a relay later this year; wait and see. And he’s only Year 12 at school.

But I mean, isn’t it wonderful that they have this drive?

Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, he’s driven in what he does. Another one of our grandsons was a canoe polo player.

We’ve mainly have good health. My wife unfortunately had breast cancer about thirty-five years ago, but fortunately recovered from that extremely well and was very positive about it, and had very good treatment. And then unfortunately, on her seventy-ninth birthday she had a fall which caused irreparable brain damage, and so she was in care for two years before she died. In some ways that was unfortunate; I know of other people who’ve had exactly the same thing; they’ve died within a very short time, which would’ve saved their families the trauma of the care she had to have in those last two years.

After living for thirty-five years in Onekawa we decided that we would make a change, so our son who was a builder at that time built us a very nice house in Rutland Place in Knightsbridge. It was a big house, which I’ve really found to be too big; it was about two hundred and fifty metres; [square metres] and I just thought, if anything happened to me – which I naturally thought … being four years older than Valerie … I would be the first to go. We needed to move to something smaller, and we did; so we moved into Parklands and to a smaller house, although I don’t think that was actually the right move – we didn’t quite find the right house. But anyhow, it was okay, and we lived very happily there for about nine years and ‘til Valerie had the fall which caused her to go into care. And then I made the move to come eventually to live in Hastings so that I was close to where she was. And she lived only for three months after I moved into Frimley Village, where I now still live. She would not have wanted to live here because she always liked living in Napier, and I would prefer to have lived in Napier as well, but I am extremely happy here and will not move, or have no plans to move out of here, because it’s a very nice place in which to live, very good neighbours and a very supportive community.

Over the time we’ve lived particularly in Hawke’s Bay; but beforehand we had always enjoyed a whole range of classical music which had been our particular interest – not that I’m saying we were disinterested in other forms of music, but we were particularly interested in classical music. For instance, when we first were married we lived in Stokes Valley in Lower Hutt, and we were very keen to attend concerts by the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra. So we had a young baby … our eldest son was born; we didn’t have a car in those days – so we travelled from Stokes Valley into Wellington to concerts; so we would place our baby, Janet, in the carry cot, and we had very good neighbours two doors along, and we would take her there and she would just sleep in her carrycot. We would depart at about six o’clock, walk fifteen minutes down the road, catch the bus [to] take us to the station to catch the train into Wellington, walk up to the Town Hall, and did the reverse process, getting home at about eleven, eleven-thirty at night. That’s how keen we were to go to those concerts, and we did that quite a lot.

When we came to Hawke’s Bay we were able to attend concerts more easily, and being the reviewer for concerts I had the opportunity to go and always got two tickets, so Valerie would come with me. But of course our family had grown; at the time we had four children so frequently we had to have babysitters in to help, and that was good. Interestingly enough, in those days I was very good friends with one of the house masters at Napier Boys’ High School, and a couple of the boys from Napier Boys’ High School – I would go and pick them up, and they’d come and babysit. You wouldn’t do that these days, but it worked very well, and so we were able to attend many concerts with the assistance of babysitters.

And there was a whole range of concerts – orchestral concerts, chamber music concerts – and of course I was involved in presenting concerts as well with the Napier Civic Choir. So we did a lot of entertaining of visiting soloists, and had a very close association with musicians from throughout the country. Interestingly enough, the Napier Civic Choir – we formed an association with the Auckland Choral Society, so frequently we would travel up there and see a concert with them, and they’d come back and see a concert with us. And with the Hawke’s Bay Regional Orchestra we had a lot of visiting soloists from both within New Zealand and from overseas, and that was very well supported in those days by the Community College, who had helped in the funding of that institution. Sadly after I left things changed a little bit, and the person who followed me … it didn’t seem to work out for him in the position. And eventually the emphasis on [of] the Community College changed to become the polytechnic that it is now; where when the Community College was formed it was seen as something for the whole community, so there was a much wider range of community activities in art, Māori studies as well, creative writing, music and so on, as well as the trades which were set up there. And of course it was a very small place compared with what it is now. But I had fifteen very happy years there at the Community College. One of the big advantages was with the then director, John Harre, who was very much ahead of his time, I think. I was able to develop the programmes as I saw fit, so I had a lot of contact with people throughout the Hawke’s Bay area. I had a lot of adult students, and a lot of those went on eventually to become teachers. So for instance, I taught music theory right up from beginners right up to diploma level.

The Hawke’s Bay Opera House ..?

Yeah – I mean that’s had a really checkered career, hasn’t it? I mean what surprised me was when the … there was a lot of work done on it some years ago, and then suddenly it was closed again. So obviously the work that was done they weren’t concentrating on – the rating wasn’t high [enough].

I enjoy going to the Napier Muni [Municipal] as much …

Well yes – it is different. It’s not as intimate or as close, but it serves the community very well, and especially since it was remodelled some … must be nearly twenty years ago now. And the foyer is a wonderful asset there.

During my time I’ve been involved with various fundraising things; for instance, Napier or Hawke’s Bay is actually very well served for high quality pianos. One of them is housed in the [MTG] Century Theatre, which incidentally is a world class venue; the quality of the sound in that building is …

I know, we’ve been to many things there.

… yes – phenomenal. I doubt if you’d find – and we’ve heard this from groups which have come from overseas that praised it – so the piano there is a very good quality Steinway.

Anyhow, there was never a really good piano in the Napier Municipal Theatre; there was a piano there but it really wasn’t satisfactory for use as a concert instrument. And digressing briefly here, when I came to Hawke’s Bay that was the situation, and there really wasn’t a decent piano. So the then Principal, Pat Caird, at Napier Boys’ High School – he was keen to see something happen. So one of the first things that happened, that he and I went across to Hastings where we eventually purchased a Bechstein piano – and we are now talking fifty years ago, so it’s not in the same condition now. Anyhow, and for a long time, for some … ooh, six, seven, eight years, classical concerts were held in the Napier Boy’s High School hall because they had a decent piano. And then eventually the Century Theatre was opened, and by public subscription the Steinway piano was purchased; and then that was transported to the Municipal Theatre for concerts there as required.

Anyhow, about the year 2002 it was decided we needed to get another piano specifically for the Napier Municipal Theatre. And it’s interesting to remember we had a committee which used to meet at seven-thirty in the morning to raise all the funds, so we eventually raised $250,000 to purchase the piano. The very first meeting we had was the morning of 9/11; and so we got there at seven-thirty and we’d just heard the news. Two of the people on the committee were staff at the Napier City Council; one of them – her son-in-law worked in that building. Fortunately that morning he didn’t go to work for some reason or other, so he was all right. So that was just one of the things which I’ll always remember. Anyhow, we worked together on that committee to raise the necessary funds, which eventually happened; and that piano now is in the [Pan Pac] foyer of the Napier Municipal Theatre, and it’s moved into the theatre when needed for concerts there. So we’ve been very fortunate to have those instruments; and having good instruments like that has meant that we’re able to attract the best of concert performers.

One of the groups that is there is called ‘Music at the Muni’, and this is a group started by five local musicians; first of all in the Art Gallery, and then when the foyer was developed at the Municipal Theatre it shifted to there. My wife was one of those original people who were involved in that, and there are still two others of the original ones, and one was Colleen Gahagan; the other was Dermot Horan. Those were three of the people, and two of them are still there. I’m now involved in that group arranging those concerts, and they’ve been going for about thirty-five years on the last Thursday of every month.

And digressing a little further from that, there are similar sorts of organisations in other parts; so if we go to Havelock North there is a group there which meets on the first Wednesday of the month, and that’s all around the piano. And that is using the very fine Steinway Grand which they’ve got there, which the von Dadelszen family had a great deal to do with arranging the purchase of at the time. And interestingly enough, it was twenty years since the Function Centre was opened, and it was very interesting afternoon held there remembering that twenty years.

We’ve been very lucky to have that facility there – it’s used seven days a week.

It is; it’s very good, yes. So we’ve been very fortunate to have all those, you know, fine instruments in the district.

When I went to the Community College they purchased a good quality grand piano as well, so we had a lot of concerts held out at the Community College in those days. We often had Sunday afternoon concerts and various things. And then I would run courses which involved whole day orchestral courses, and I had many master classes where we had international visitors came to run classes for students and so on; so it was very busy but a very productive period of time when I was there.

I was caught up with the CMT; [Compulsory Military training] that was delayed, so I went in when I was about twenty, twenty-one instead of eighteen, because I was a teacher and I was in training at the time, so I had it deferred. Anyhow, I went into the Army which I enjoyed very much. And for some reason or other I was put into the Electrical Mechanical Engineers. But anyhow, I actually finished up in the Orderly Room, and by the time I left I was a Staff Sergeant so I worked in the Orderly Room – I did all the pay and all that sort of thing, so I was very fortunate in that respect.

So where were you?

Okay. So I went first of all to Linton, and interestingly enough that was the year the Queen came, [background noise] and it was also the year of the Tangiwai disaster. Anyhow, I was there for some … I don’t know, for the first part of it, I’m not sure for how long … but then we were shifted to Waiouru. Anyhow, then afterwards I went – we had to go back for three years – and I also went for another three years, ‘cause I enjoyed the annual camps and the weekends, so it was good. I think it was a pretty good system actually, and it did a lot of good for we young people who were growing up at that time.

It was amazing to see how people changed … Linton, I think, is colder than Waiouru; Waiouru is cold but down there, it’s the wind.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So – no, it was far [?better?] in the summer, January, February. And then we used to go camping in March in [at] the annual campsites and they were at Waiouru; a baboosh out there looking at Mt Ruapehu in the beautiful evenings and so on – it was wonderful. So that was a really good experience. Well I got my heavy traffic licence while I was there.

Yeah, we drove all round the southern end of the North Island in these old Chev [Chevrolet] trucks …,

And Scannells; and what was the other thing that was like a Scannell? Not as big – another name … can’t remember.

So that was an interesting part of my life – I enjoyed that experience in the Army.

Just going back to the trip overseas with the Scouts, the whole cost was £255, and that was the cost for five months away, which was our fare; I think the fare each way was about £56, and we were there for six weeks on that ship. So it was amazing. And when we left Wellington we boarded on the Wednesday; we didn’t leave ‘til Sunday morning because the ship broke down [chuckle] ‘cause it had not been reconditioned at all. So I don’t know what happened, but anyhow, it sat there in Wellington harbour and we were on board – we’d already embarked, so we were on board. So we wandered round Wellington; I don’t know quite what we did, and I can imagine the people like Cyril [?] and so on – they would’ve been a little bit worried about, you know … But I think teenagers were better disciplined in those days than they would be now.

Well we knew that ‘No’ means no.

Yes. So we then set off, and Panama the ship broke down again, so we had an extra day there; half way across the Atlantic one of the engines clapped out so we were on half speed for some time. [Chuckle]

Oh dear!

We eventually got to England, and we were taken to Gilwell Park. We lived under canvas so we catered for our own needs and there were two hundred and thirty three of us altogether; amazing. And then if we had relatives we could go and stay with relatives for a certain period, so I had relatives in the Lake District. Had a wonderful ten days in the Lake District, took a friend with me, and then went to Bedford, then down to Boscombe. Then we went off to the Jamboree; the Jamboree was wonderful. There were thirty thousand Scouts there. The food was not all that wonderful – I can remember the meat wasn’t very good, I think, but grapes were great. And there was a little train went round and brought the food to the various campsites and so on. New Zealand was very popular because of our Māori performances which we did, and so on. So it was a great experience there; and meeting all those other Scouts. And of course we were living close to London, and every week we had a day in London – went round all the places. And of course all the bombing and everything was still there, and it was amazing! I didn’t sort of quite appreciate it at the time, but now that I think back – how on earth did they organise all that? And how did they do it for that sort of cost? But a man’s wages in those days was about £5 a week …

Yes, it’s all relevant, isn’t it?

… so I suppose it was the wages for a man for a year. But it was an amazing experience. And then we went … interestingly enough we went to Versailles on our trip to Paris. When I went there six years ago it was exactly as it was.

What age were you?

Fourteen.

It would’ve had a lot of benefit to you as a person.

But after the Jamboree we were able to then go out, so I went to my relatives in Bedford, and then I went to my relatives in Boscombe. In between there were three days and I spent them in London on my own, living on Captain Scott’s ship, the ‘Discovery’ which was a Scout hostel in those days …

Good Lord!

… berthed on the River Thames just near Cleopatra’s Needle. And I lived there for three days, and then wandered around London on my own; now you wouldn’t do that as a fourteen-year-old boy now, would you?

No.

And I was perfectly safe; I don’t know what I did. And the money – we didn’t take any other money with us, so headquarters provided us with enough money … I don’t know. I still think about it, and I think, ‘How on earth did they manage to do it?’

Well a fourteen-year-old wouldn’t need a lot of money.

No. Well, I suppose – they would now. But you didn’t have much, so you didn’t want … [speaking together]

You’d need a credit card now.

Yeah, absolutely. And you’d have your cell phone and God knows what …

[Chuckle] I think you‘ve covered most things, and some of this paperwork will cover some of the gaps.

I think when we moved to Hawke’s Bay it was sort of a … ‘will we come or will I go?’ I mean at one stage I was offered a position at Wanganui Collegiate and I turned it down. I mean I’m glad I did because I think my life in Hawke’s Bay has been … I mean I’ve had a wonderful life here, my wife and I; you know, the experiences we’ve had and the things which we were able to do – it’s been, you know, wonderful. And even since I’ve retired, you know – all the activities around the place have been really good.

Okay. Well I think we’ll stop at this point, shall we?

Yeah.

Peter, thank you for the opportunity to interview you, and also for your contribution and your late wife’s contribution to Hawke’s Bay. I’m pretty sure Hawkes Bay’s been very pleased that you came.

Well, maybe.